MG 42/M53/MG3 of M2HB?

[Cheezle56]

So i'm looking into getting into beltfeds, any opinion on which one I should try to acquire first?
MG42/M53/MG3 hybrid: available in 7.62, Cheaper, easier to homebuild with a tig welder, harder to get links and accessories for. probably about 2K for a homebuild with all the 308 parts? disentigrating and non-disnetigrating belts available.

M2HB/M3: Supposedly a loophole in the CA .50BMG ban, expensive to get, expensive to feed. home buildable, but riveting? easier to get replacement parts for, currently manufactured. I see these things at work... I can get familiarization on these from coworkers.
also, for the the Ma Deuce, there are multiple manufactures, Ohio ordnance, JNC, who else?

Both are legacy platforms what are still in service today, Any opinions on one or the other? I'll probably end up getting the other eventually... I've considered the RPD, and the israeli 1919's but, I've ruled them out for one reason or another. Any of the old timers here at calguns to chime in? AR15 Barrels?

[kalibeltfeeder]

I would go with the MG42, in 8mm, for cost purposes.

I already have an Isrealli 1919 and an RPD and love to shoot them both, but when I take them out of state and use real belts I burn thru a ton of ammo. Not a biggie with the 762x39 but the 308 gets expensive! I can only imagine how much the .50 costs to run.

I really want to build an M53 myself, they look super cool, the kits are cheap, there is a lot of resources and parts, and 8mm is cheap, plus it seems like a way more challenging build.

My ultimate dream belt feed would be a PKM though, just gotta start saving for it though!

[pterrell]

Semi Auto Belt fed... I know we can't get f/a weapons (yet) but I guess I just don't see the point...

[Capybara]

I would only get either if you reload. .50 BMG becomes more practical if you can get a load of good brass, search out deals on surplus bullets and buy loads of powder at a time and I think you can get it down to perhaps $1.50 to $2.00 per round? I think .50 BMG would become less boring after a while than the smaller calibers as far as shooting enjoyment. I've seen people rapid fire the semi-autos and the cyclic rate of the M2 in full auto is fairly slow so if you are fast with the trigger, you can still get the effect of pumping a lot of lead quickly downrange, albeit not at full auto speeds of course.

MG42 is a cool gun also, but I personally would get a 1919. Have you ever lifted an M2 or tried to fit one into your gun safe? Having to always remove the barrel, re-headpsace and time it, to me, would be inconvenient. The 1919 is so much simpler and easier to transport, store and feed. I think there are kits/conversions for the 1919 to shoot 7.62x54r, that would be incredibly economical in comparison. The best advice would be to go to Angeles during a Belt Fed Shooters day and see them all up close and in real life, being shot. I bet a few of the owners would let you shoot their guns too if you pay for ammo and then you could get some trigger time behind each and discover what you really want. It may not be what you think you want.

[Cheezle56]

I do reload but I don't think my press is built to handle the .50 BMG... It's the O frame from the Lee Challenger kit. part of what i'm wondering about is also the future availability... it seems an mg 42 is fairly available right now, but not tomorrow, but the M2 will kinda always ne around? I'm still debating whether or not I should save the 10K for a Ma Deuce or just the 2K for everything on an M53/MG3? I think I can go cheaper, maybe 7k if I build on the M3 kits and side plates from KMP, maybe 8k if I use the Ohio ordnance kits but I'm somewhat averse to doing riveting compared to welding. I was wondering if AR15 barrels has done any M2 builds? Buying one, I know atlantic sells one, but, 8.5K before taxes is steep...

[timdps]

What belts did you own before 1/1/2000?

Belts are high cap magazines in CA, so you will be limited to 10 round belts in CA unless you owned them before the ban.

That said, the RPD weighs 15 pounds compared to the 25 pounds for the MG42 and its clones. 7.62x39 ammo is considerably cheaper than 8mm or .308 and its a gas to shoot. Can be shouldered like a rifle, at least for a while.

Belt feds need to be featureless guns because bullet buttons don't work.
RPD needs a grip fin. M53 needs a grip fin and a washer welded into the flash hider to negate the flash hider evil feature.

M2 and friends, as well as DShK chambered in .50 BMG are perfectly legal in CA because CA's ban on .50BMG weapons only apples to rifles.

[CAL.BAR]

What belts did you own before 1/1/2000?

Belts are high cap magazines in CA, so you will be limited to 10 round belts in CA unless you owned them before the ban.

That said, the RPD weighs 15 pounds compared to the 25 pounds for the MG42 and its clones. 7.62x39 ammo is considerably cheaper than 8mm or .308 and its a gas to shoot. Can be shouldered like a rifle, at least for a while.

Belt feds need to be featureless guns because bullet buttons don't work.
RPD needs a grip fin. M53 needs a grip fin and a washer welded into the flash hider to negate the flash hider evil feature.

M2 and friends, as well as DShK chambered in .50 BMG are perfectly legal in CA because CA's ban on .50BMG weapons only apples to rifles.

Exactly! If you did not own pre-linked belts prior to 2000 getting into belt fed is a waste of time and money. Shooting a BF 10 rounds at a time is frustrating and lame.

If you are dead set on getting into them FWIW - I have an RPD and 1919a4. Assuming the belt length is not an issue, I'd go with the 1919a4. Primarily because there is a great support network of people who own them on 1919a4.com who can help you get it set up and troubleshoot it. Also there are lots of parts and things available for them. The RPD and MG42 do not have as much support or variety of parts. Also, unlike the others, the 1919a4 doesn't have a "pistol grip" as defined by law, so you don't have to worry about it like you do with the others.

[Cheezle56]

Exactly! If you did not own pre-linked belts prior to 2000 getting into belt fed is a waste of time and money. Shooting a BF 10 rounds at a time is frustrating and lame.

If you are dead set on getting into them FWIW - I have an RPD and 1919a4. Assuming the belt length is not an issue, I'd go with the 1919a4. Primarily because there is a great support network of people who own them on 1919a4.com who can help you get it set up and troubleshoot it. Also there are lots of parts and things available for them. The RPD and MG42 do not have as much support or variety of parts. Also, unlike the others, the 1919a4 doesn't have a "pistol grip" as defined by law, so you don't have to worry about it like you do with the others.

I know it sounds somewhat stupid but I found disintegrating links for the MG3 and since I often go to the range with a friend, probably have him be an AG and connect little 6-8 round sections? Part of why matters are complicated for me in the decision making is because short of getting the M2HB, for everything else I'm looking at the GPMG category rather than a SAW or MMG (already got an LMG). I know a HMG vs GPMG is like comparing apples to oranges, and the only thing in common is they grow on trees. IF they weren't so rare and expensive, a PKM is my first choice, but PKT parts kits don't seem readily convertible nor easily buildable into PKM's, not to mention, for being one of the world's most prolific GPMG's you'd think parts would be easier to come by. I really did give serious thought to the MMG category like the 1919's and the SG43, but... While fun, takes substantially more effort to set up with the tripod/ pintle mount (I'm basing it off of the amount of set up for Jamie's 1910 maxim, and Sarco seems to have a very good support network for the 1919A4) whereas I'm seeing a GPMGs like a heavier version of my mag-fed LMGs (FAL). I did also give serious thought to DSA's RPD, but acquiring belts will be an issue, and I'd prefer not to get a SAW at the moment. I was talking to a friend about the issue and after finding all the build parts, and adding up the costs, I think I might go with building an M53, sell a rifle to partially fund the build. while continuing to save for the M2HB... Also, is there any reason to favor the ANM2HB over the M3HB? I understand one was an aircraft variant converted to ground use, and there's differences in the details, but any mechanical reasons? Seeing the M2HB's's everyday at work doesn't doesn't help my envy though I keep hearing scuttlebut that there might be crew served requals in the near future.

[gotshotgun?]

What belts did you own before 1/1/2000?

MYOB

[smashycrashy]

You have to go kydex wraps or spade grips (i.e. no pistol grip) on almost all belt feds. The 1919a4 rear handle doesn't fit the legal definition of a pistol grip so it is gtg, you can even put a A6 kit sans flash hider on and be kosher.

M2HB are expensive but legal, if you haven't handled one they are quite bulky. Everything is massive, so just be prepared for that.

I've seen "CA Legal" MG3 that basically took off the pistol grip and mounted them to the mg3 ground mount.

For CA, I think the 1919a4 is the best option, you can get a 54r conversion kit if you want cheap ammo

[Cheezle56]

I was thinking of using my "retired" 7.62x51 brass for that... brass that's been reloaded and fired through my other guns that are nearing the end of service life, load it with the cheapest possible projectiles and run it through the MG and leave the beat up brass for the range jerks. I got enough guns that eat 54R right now, and I'm worried the 5.45 ban will one day come to 54R so I'm a little averse to investing too heavily in 54R though I saw some new manufacture Romanian for surplus prices. Seem like the going rate for surplus and reman 50BMG is around $2.20-2.75? what's the going rate for a .50BMG capable reloading press and dies? source of primers? I've already decided to sell one of my AK's, and maybe something else to get all the M53/MG3 parts first, build at my leisure since it seems like it's mostly welding and trimming sheet metal, and continue saving towards the Ma Deuce... I figure maybe in a year and I'll have enough disposable saved up to fund a purchase.... knowing the strange tendency for individual components to grow into complete guns, maybe I'll probably start by getting a stellite barrel first and watch the rest of the gun gradually form around it? Anybody know someone who can do the rivets on the 50? I'll also start keeping an eye out for anyone selling used 50's in the for sale section in case I might find a good deal. Another question is who's warranties are transferable? Does JNC have transferable warranty?

[sigstroker]

Have you got a place to shoot a .50?

One good thing is you can find TONS of linked ammo for it. Buy it out of state, de-link to 10 round segments, import into Cali, and wahlah. Heck, I got 300 rounds of ball I'll be selling soon.

[mrkubota]

So i'm looking into getting into beltfeds, any opinion on which one I should try to acquire first?
MG42/M53/MG3 hybrid: available in 7.62, Cheaper, easier to homebuild with a tig welder, harder to get links and accessories for. probably about 2K for a homebuild with all the 308 parts? disentigrating and non-disnetigrating belts available.

M2HB/M3: Supposedly a loophole in the CA .50BMG ban, expensive to get, expensive to feed. home buildable, but riveting? easier to get replacement parts for, currently manufactured. I see these things at work... I can get familiarization on these from coworkers.
also, for the the Ma Deuce, there are multiple manufactures, Ohio ordnance, JNC, who else?

Both are legacy platforms what are still in service today, Any opinions on one or the other? I'll probably end up getting the other eventually... I've considered the RPD, and the israeli 1919's but, I've ruled them out for one reason or another. Any of the old timers here at calguns to chime in? AR15 Barrels?

I've had a 1919a4 and M2HB... in semi auto, the M2 is more fun.
The heavy barrel version is a little easier to deal with than the aircraft version.
The SG43 kits are still fairly inexpensive and shoot the 7.62x54R.
DShK kits used to be cheap and they still come up for sale now and then. Need to be converted to BMG to be economical to shoot.

some reference sites:

http://centralwisconsinarmory.com/content.cfm?PageID=4&Cat=0

http://www.m2hb.net/m2phpBB3/index.php

http://www.beltfedshooters.com/forum

http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/3_50_Cal.html

http://www.1919a4.com/

Reloading costs for .50BMG:

Presuming you already have the basic reloading accessories (calipers, lube, case trimmer, etc), you'll like need to add these items:

520.00 - Hornady BMG 1-1/2"dia press and die set
90.00 - Hornady BMG powder measure
3.00 - MTM 10g plastic shotshell holder (use as reloading block)
56.00 - 8lb surplus wc860 powder (will do about 250 rounds of BMG)
52.00 - 250ea BMG primers
235.00 - 500ea once-fired BMG brass
210.00 - 500ea M33/ball surplus

[D Day Dog]

Id go with either an RPD or 1919. If your wallet is as tight as mine and you can't afford the FA variety or your State does not allow then, these are relatively inexpensive alternatives and are still fun to shoot. GB had some New manufactured RPDs for around $2500-$3000 and I've seen 1919s as low as $2000. 308 or 7.62x39 isn't going to break the wallet too bad. I've shot both and they have the cool factor too. I had an M53, but never shot it. It was primarily and investment gun and I'm not afraid to say I was a little intimidated by belt feds at that time. Wish I'd kept it though, cuz the guy I sold it to it having a blast with it and cheap milsurp 8mm mauser is plentiful. Good luck !

[B Strong]

Go with the 7.62 42ish version.

Non-disnetigrating belts are easier to load, Don't buy cheap surplus ammo to run in a 42, NFA or otherwise. Firing out of battery or a hangfire can be dangerous to the shooters' health as well as spectators.