Old technology argument

[NOTABIKER]

I prefer simple reliable rifles. I never got caught up in the this is better argument. The more complicated it is to clean the more likely i will own it a short time and then sell it.I love C&R military rifles the most. steel and wood baby. the newest rifle i own is a heavy barrel savage mark 2 FV bolt 22lr. I tend to stay away from the most popular choices. I bought the Savage over a 10-22 because everybody and their uncle has one and i like bolt action.

[billofrights]

The wheel is a pretty old design, that one seems to have held up well.

[NytWolf]

The 1911 design is outdated only when 1911 fan boys start bragging how 1911's are better than anything else.

[71MUSTY]

I only ask two questions.

1. Does it still preform the job it was designed for?
2. Do I need a tool for that job?

[Noonanda]

I only ask two questions.

1. Does it still preform the job it was designed for?
2. Do I need a tool for that job?

We really need a Like button on here

[bohoki]

it mostly has to do with safety but at the end of the day cocked and locked is pretty much identical to an ar-15 loaded on safe

[tophatjones]

I never understood the outdated argument either. It might have some validity if we compare a box stock 1911 from WWI era to a modern gun. However, the design has been constantly updated and tweaked to incorporate modern technology. For example:

1) Large sights/Night sights/Target sights. Standard on modern 1911s.
2) Aluminum or polymer frame material. They can be found on 1911s.
3) Double stack. There are double stack 1911s.
4) Hollow points. The 1911 now has a larger barrel throat to accomodate more bullet profiles, as well as various magazine feed lip profiles for shorter OAL cartridges.
5) Light rail. Can be found on 1911s.
6) Modern steel alloys/heat treatment.
7) Modern manufacturing CNC, MIM, casting. Manufacturers have adapted.
8) Modern finishes Nitriding, WDLC. Found on high end 1911s or aftermarket.
9) Ergo features like interchangeable backstraps/thin grips/beavertail. Standard on most 1911s.

So, what about the stuff that hasn't been upgraded? Features like the barrel link system, barrel bushing, and internal extractor were all designed to allow the end user to change/upgrade as parts wear. Additionally, some of these seemingly archaic features allow the 1911 to be completely detailed stripped using its own parts. Relevant to modern times, these aforementioned features also allow a gunsmith to customize fitting/tuning for competition.

Finally, the most important indication that the design is still relevant: the Browning short recoil/tilting barrel design is everywhere on modern pistols. Until another locking design takes over as king, the 1911 is not outdated.

[John Joseph]

I think a lot of it has to do with marketing.

[toby]

Some people will never understand. Old school kicks azz!

[thenodnarb]

I own a glock and a 1911. I like them both.
I own a powered planer and a 200 year old wood hand plane. I use them both
I have a modern truck with A/C and an old land cruiser that doesn't require electronics run, except ignition. I drive them both.

I don't understand those who love one and hate the other. In my experience, the old ways, and old things are built better, last longer and are more beautiful as well. The more "advanced" we get, the more cheaply made things get. Cars don't last as long, furniture falls apart, bulbs burn out quicker, food has less flavor etc...
Guns are one area that has generally resisted this progression, or at least adapted well. Nothing wrong with the polymer guns, and steel has gotten better. That said, nothing can equal a well made browning design in terms of strength and longevity with its hand fitted parts.

[anothergunnut]

Most Calgunners are (apparently) too young to remember when 1911s were complete POS. It used to be that immediately after buying one, you would go to the gunsmith and drop some cash getting it to work with something other than 230 grain hardball. Today, we just take it for granted that an out of the box 1911 will be accurate and reliable with any type of ammunition.

1911s and similar vintage firearms were designed in a time when machine labor was inexpensive. Those designs are much more expensive to produce than a stamped metal or injected polymer design.

[Gunsmith Dan]

Double Barrel Shotgun pre date even revolvers yet people still using them all the time .... are they obsolete?

[1CavScout]

^^^ Depends what you are using it for. I have a Stevens DB that is my go to rattlesnake gun. For HD I prefer my Benelli M4, or even my Mossberg 500. The DB can work in that role, but I will take the capacity of the newer guns. It's also faster to combat load a more modern SG if the need arises. My.02.

[-hanko]

I have seen a few posts in the pistol forum where people state that the 1911 is obsolete and 100 year old technology when compared to X or Y pistol. When did a design age define wiether it is obsolete? Would anyone that claims the 1911 is obsolete say the same thing about the M-2 .50 cal? The M-2 design will be 100 years old in 7 years, yet noone is stating it should be replaced. Just seems kind of a shill argument, that this is obsolete because the design is X years old, but Y is perfectly fine.

Those who criticize normally don't have enough of an engineering education and/or experience in firearms design to know what the fark they're talking or writing about.

[Gem1950]

Most Calgunners are (apparently) too young to remember when 1911s were complete POS. It used to be that immediately after buying one, you would go to the gunsmith and drop some cash getting it to work with something other than 230 grain hardball. Today, we just take it for granted that an out of the box 1911 will be accurate and reliable with any type of ammunition.

1911s and similar vintage firearms were designed in a time when machine labor was inexpensive. Those designs are much more expensive to produce than a stamped metal or injected polymer design.

I understand what you are positing but don't buy the "complete POS" description. If that were the case the G.I.s since WWI, and all the subsequent engagements, would have been rejecting it as a combat sidearm.

Wondering which military issue sidearm in the last 100 years out performs the 1911 in function, durability, reliability and power?

When I was young I worked with a guy who had been a Seabee in Viet Nam. He took his Ruger revolver with him as a personal sidearm. He told me that his Chief took his revolver and a 1911 and threw them both in a mud puddle and told him - Now see which one works...You know the rest of the story.