Apartment life, firearms, and security

[CrossedRifles]

I'm considering moving into an apartment (out of California) and I've never lived in one before.

I obviously can't bolt down a safe, so would keeping thousands of dollars worth of firearms in my apartment be unwise?

Of course I won't let anyone know I have them. Do landlords need to know? Do most complexes have policies regarding firearms?

[North Bay Guy]

I always bolt my safe down in rentals. As a bare minimum bolt it to the wall studs. When you move you can patch and paint over the holes. If there's a crawl space and you can determine there's no water pipes or electrical below it then bolt it to the floor too. Anything retention is better then nothing. If someone is determined enough they'll get your safe but most criminals are gonna grab easy stuff and try to be out in less then 5 minutes. I've never been asked about firearms when renting. There's no reason to offer up the information to your landlord or rental place.

[SanPedroShooter]

Bolt it to the wall studs, don't tell the manager (not their business) and get to know your neighbors as well as you can.

I live across from a military base, a lot of overflow AD guys in here. Its like a fortress. Its built like one too.

And look into renters insurance with coverage for firearms. I use USAA.

[SDM44]

Most important, read the entire lease agreement and see what their policy is on firearms and other weapons (if any). After that, see if it says anything about the manager's ability to access your apt at specific or any time.

[SanPedroShooter]

I don't think an apartment manager or owner can prohibit the exercise of a constitutional right like keeping arms anymore than they can prohibit exercise of religion or speech in your unit.

Ive seen threads about some 'no guns' clause in a lease. You can voluntarily agree to give up your rights in a contract I suppose, not sure what that would mean if it came to evection. Never heard of it happening. Its a civil matter in any case.

Common areas are a different story.

In California, managers can access a unit with 24 hours notice or in an emergency, not sure how that is defined.

[fiddletown]

I don't think an apartment manager or owner can prohibit the exercise of a constitutional right like keeping arms anymore than they can prohibit exercise of religion or speech in your unit...

The Constitution regulates the conduct of government, not private conduct.

Absent an applicable state statute or court decision, there would be no reason why a "no guns" clause would not be enforceable in a residential lease with a private (i. e., non-governmental) landlord. What can, and can not, be in a residential lease is usually heavily regulated by statute, but as far as I know only a few States (the ones I know are Minnesota, Ohio (if the tenant has a CHL) and Virginia) have laws that would prohibit a "no guns" clause. If you sign the lease with that clause in it, keep a gun on the premises and the landlord finds out, you will no doubt be evicted, and a court would almost certainly uphold an eviction.

And no, that would not be "unconstitutional" nor would it be [illegal] discrimination.

1. Rights protected by the Constitution are essentially irrelevant when dealing with a non-governmental actor. As explained by the United States Supreme Court (Edmonson v. Leesville Concrete Company, Inc, 500 U.S. 614 (U. S. Supreme Court, 1991), emphasis added):

   ....The Constitution structures the National Government, confines its actions, and, in regard to certain individual liberties and other specified matters, confines the actions of the States. With a few exceptions, such as the provisions of the Thirteenth Amendment, constitutional guarantees of individual liberty and equal protection do not apply to the actions of private entities. Tarkanian, supra, 488 U.S., at 191, 109 S.Ct., at 461; Flagg Bros, Inc. v. Brooks, 436 U.S. 149, 156, 98 S.Ct. 1729, 1733, 56 L.Ed.2d 185 (1978). This fundamental limitation on the scope of constitutional guarantees "preserves an area of individual freedom by limiting the reach of federal law" and "avoids imposing on the State, its agencies or officials, responsibility for conduct for which they cannot fairly be blamed." Lugar v. Edmondson Oil Co., 457 U.S. 922, 936-937, 102 S.Ct. 2744, 2753, 73 L.Ed.2d 482 (1982). One great object of the Constitution is to permit citizens to structure their private relations as they choose subject only to the constraints of statutory or decisional law. ....

   
   
2. In general, discrimination is not illegal. You do it all the time. Every time you decide to shop in this store rather than that, you have discriminated. Every time you decide to buy this rather than that, you have discriminated.
   
   
3. Businesses discriminate all the time too, and legally. Apple stores discriminate against people who want to buy a PC by only selling Apple computers. Many restaurant discriminate against Orthodox Jews or Muslims by not strictly following the dietary laws of those religions. Many restaurants also discriminate against persons not wearing shirts and/or shoes by not admitting them. Tiffany discriminates against poor people in the prices they charge. Businesses also discriminate whenever they hire one person instead of another who has applied for the job.
   
   
4. Discrimination is merely choosing one thing over another or rejecting a possible choice. Discrimination is the very essence of freedom and private property. It is the right to choose. It is the right to exclude. It is the right to decide how you want to use your property.
   
   
5. Discrimination is perfectly legal, unless some law makes it illegal. There are laws that make discrimination illegal on various, specifically identified and defined bases, illegal -- at least if you're a business open to the public or an employer or in some other specified category. In general, gun owners aren't a protected class.
   
   
6. So in general a "no guns" clause in a residential lease is valid and enforceable unless state law prohibits such clauses in residential leases.

[SanPedroShooter]

In any case, I would say the good thing about apartments is so many witnesses, the bad thing of course is so many witnesses.

Like that old guy that watches every car that comes down the street, what time your sprinklers go and how often you get the mail, now you are sharing a wall with him..

Its like living with the herd. It can be good and bad. Living in such close proximity to other people can go south quickly. But if you have good neighbors, someone is always looking out for you.

[TacRak]

CHECK OUT TAC RAKS!

Perfect for those always moving, apartment housing...........

[sanjoseskater]

CHECK OUT TAC RAKS!

Perfect for those always moving, apartment housing...........

You should design your rack with a hidden lock I could bust that lock real easy to exposed for power tools or bolt cutters

[smith and wesson]

I'm considering moving into an apartment (out of California) and I've never lived in one before.

I obviously can't bolt down a safe, so would keeping thousands of dollars worth of firearms in my apartment be unwise?

Of course I won't let anyone know I have them. Do landlords need to know? Do most complexes have policies regarding firearms?

I have a safe in my apartment. For me the most important thing was that no one around me knew I owned a safe or even firearms. When transferring the safe I covered it in blankets and had a friend help me move it in.

You definitely can't bolt it down but if you load it heavy enough (ammo cans) then it won't be easy to drag out, if it's a smaller thiner safe.

[Jimi Jah]

Rent a storage building?

[RedFord150]

I don't think an apartment manager or owner can prohibit the exercise of a constitutional right like keeping arms anymore than they can prohibit exercise of religion or speech in your unit. ....

I am under the impression that many Federal Housing projects prohibit firearms.
As far as what a Landlord can prohibit, he has a lot of latitude. He cannot discriminate against any protected class, but that is about the only thing he cannot do.
If you sign a lease or rental agreement, you are bound by those terms. If you violate those terms, you might find yourself receiving a 3 day notice to comply or get out.
If firearms are not discussed, do not bring them up. Keep this knowledge to yourself. Conceal your safe and bolt it down in a way that you can easily repair any damage before you move. Keep in mind that a burglar does not know if you used 3/4" bolts or small wood screws until he makes the decision to forcibly remove the safe using tools. Before starting the removal, he only knows that the safe is or is not secured. In other words, perception alone might be a good enough deterrent.
Renter's Insurance is a must. No reason to gamble not getting something this important when the cost is only around $20 per month.
Good luck.

[Bansh88]

Do whatever you can to rent a house.

Living in an apartment sucks on just about every level. Even in a "nice" complex. At least shoot for a Townhome or Duplex.

[kjv146]

save money. buy house. bolt safe.

[e90bmw]

I am under the impression that many Federal Housing projects prohibit firearms.
As far as what a Landlord can prohibit, he has a lot of latitude. He cannot discriminate against any protected class, but that is about the only thing he cannot do.
If you sign a lease or rental agreement, you are bound by those terms. If you violate those terms, you might find yourself receiving a 3 day notice to comply or get out.
If firearms are not discussed, do not bring them up. Keep this knowledge to yourself. Conceal your safe and bolt it down in a way that you can easily repair any damage before you move. Keep in mind that a burglar does not know if you used 3/4" bolts or small wood screws until he makes the decision to forcibly remove the safe using tools. Before starting the removal, he only knows that the safe is or is not secured. In other words, perception alone might be a good enough deterrent.
Renter's Insurance is a must. No reason to gamble not getting something this important when the cost is only around $20 per month.
Good luck.

They cannot prohibit the owning and keeping of firearms.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/03/21/delaware-supreme-court-upholds-gun-right

Landlords in Ca. cannot evict, not rent to you because you own a gun.
Most in Ca. won't ask because they know there is nothing they can do.

Bolt it to the wall (studs) then patch and paint.
It will be in a closet, right?