Is F-Class just a money game?

[blockfort]

I know you have to be a good shooter and be good with the wind, but where does it fall on the equipment-vs-shooter spectrum?

I have a 308 bolt action that I'd like to compete with, but it has a 5 round internal mag, 28" barrel, and is quite heavy, so I don't think it's suited for tactical matches. F-Class may be the best arena for it, but I wonder if I'll stand any chance if I'm being outspent (aside from outshot).

[CSACANNONEER]

Go to a public range and watch the tacticool fools with $5000 rigs who shoot surplus ammo and are impressed with their 4" groups at 50 yards. Money does not buy experience or skill. It can make a .5 moa shooter into a .25 moa shooter if the shooter does everything else right.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

WHAT?! Are you saying that money can't buy skill?!

[russ69]

You can shoot F/TR class with your 308. As you get better you'll want better equipment that's just natural as you will want to be more competitive. The cost with F class is not the equipment, it's the traveling. You'll be able to find local matches but the better matches and regionals will have you traveling and staying overnight for a couple of days.

[blockfort]

You can shoot F/TR class with your 308. As you get better you'll want better equipment that's just natural as you will want to be more competitive. The cost with F class is not the equipment, it's the traveling. You'll be able to find local matches but the better matches and regionals will have you traveling and staying overnight for a couple of days.

I've camped at coalinga before. But Ojai, burbank, and wegc are all relatively close to me in LA.

[spamsucker]

Competing does not mean that you really have a chance to win. It means you have a chance to compete. There is always someone 100x better than you on the firing line so thinking you'll get into it and be able to win is usually pie in the sky. Your contribution is to compete against yourself and push your own limits, doing better each time you go out. Better equipment helps turn great shooters into even greater shooters. It does not turn mediocre or even really good shooters into great competitive shooters. Skill then equipment.

[toby]

Go to a public range and watch the tacticool fools with $5000 rigs who shoot surplus ammo and are impressed with their 4" groups at 50 yards. Money does not buy experience or skill. It can make a .5 moa shooter into a .25 moa shooter if the shooter does everything else right.

Or just listen to them brag right here on CGNS.

[CK_32]

To an extent yes, poor skills with a cheap rig vs poor skills with a expensive rig, the guy with higher tech will usually edge out. But up top, when 90% of the guys has the skill, and the gear. The guys with little better luck and better skill wil tend to edge out more often than not.

So yes at the lower levels it does effect the standings a lot, more experienced shooters no, skills do prevail. Their high end gear just allows them to utilize and maximize their skill set while there.

[CSACANNONEER]

I remember a story that a highly respected benchrest shooter and precision rifle builder once told me. Some years back, at a FCSA match, he and a bunch of other shooters decided to trade rifles and ammo for a match. The results were that the shooters all still shot about the same as they normally shot. So, does equipment make a shootet better? Not really as long as the equiment is capable of more than the shooter is.

[Fjold]

In 2012, the factory sponsored Savage USA team won the F class World Championships with mostly factory rifles pulled right off the production line.


Team Savage Dominates F Class World Championships in Bisley, England

It seems hard to believe you can compete and win at the highest levels of long-range shooting competition with a stock factory rifle, but that's exactly what Team Savage did at the recent F Class world championships in Bisley, England. The team dominated the F-T/R division, winning a total of 14 medals at the World Championships proper and various side matches associated with the event.



Stan Pate of Milwaukie, OR,; Darrell Buell Damascus, OR; Monte Milanuk of Wenatchee WA and John Weil of Welches, OR made the trip across the Atlantic to represent the US and Savage Arms. The competition is held once every four years and features some of the best talent and most expensive custom rifles from around the globe. The matches are held over several days, at distances of 800, 900 and 1,000 yards.


The Savage Shooters used the Model 12 F-T/R from Savage Arms. This exact model can be purchased from any Savage Arms dealer and carries a suggested retail price of just $1,265. The results speak for themselves: Team Savage comes home with Seven gold medals, two silvers and two bronze from the World Championships. They also earned two gold medals and a bronze a the associated side matches, including one held in Ireland.

F-Class Individual World Championships (F-T/R)

900 yard Day 1
Stan Pate 1st (gold medal)

800 yard Day 2
Monte Milanuk 1st (gold medal)

900 yard Day 2
John Weil 1st (gold medal)

1000 yard Day 2
Stan Pate 1st (gold medal)

800 Yard Aggregate Match
Monte Milanuk 1st (gold medal)

900 Yard Aggregate Match
John Weil 1st (gold medal)
Stan Pate 2nd
Darrell Buell 3rd

Day 2 Aggregate
Stan Pate 2nd (silver medal)

Individual World Championships Grand Aggregate
Stan Pate 3rd (bronze medal)
Darrell Buell 9th
John Weil 10th
Monte Milanuk 13th

World Championship National Teams Match
Team USA 1st place... World Champions
Darrell Buell (Captain)... Gold Medal
John Weil... Gold Medal
Monte Milanuk... Gold Medal


Duke of Cambridge (900 yard match)
John Weil 1st place (gold medal)
Darrell Buell 3rd place (bronze medal)

Ireland:
Bog Oak Team Trophy
Darrell Buell, Stan Pate, Monte Milanuk, John Weil, Gold Medal

[blockfort]

I'm considering a Savage 12 Palma for palma shooting.

[Cypriss32]

Maybe, maybe not. I know custom tubes are more accurate then factory ones. I also would never go cheap on optics..... Buy a good scope, Bushnell HDMR is the cheapest optic I own. Id rather own a factory 700 in A AICS stock with a nice scope (1500.00 and up) then a custom rifle and mueller like I keep seeing posted on here. Cheap optics are not repeatable, reliable and have terrible optical quality.

[RobG]

It seems as though you have never shot F class so yea, you will be out shot and have little chance of winning. Is that because of your gear? No. You have no experience shooting F class. Can you go out, have a great time, and learn a whole bunch? Absolutely. Grab your gear and head out to a match. The groups that I have shot with (Sac Valley range) are all friendly and willing to help and give you pointers.

Since you have a 28" tube, load some 155's at 2900ish and you will be good to go. Very good, repeatable glass is a must if you want to be competitive. I have shot F with my Harris bipod and a rear bag that I use for tac type matches and while it works, it is not optimal F class gear.

Good luck.

[blockfort]

It seems as though you have never shot F class so yea, you will be out shot and have little chance of winning. Is that because of your gear? No. You have no experience shooting F class. Can you go out, have a great time, and learn a whole bunch? Absolutely. Grab your gear and head out to a match. The groups that I have shot with (Sac Valley range) are all friendly and willing to help and give you pointers.

Since you have a 28" tube, load some 155's at 2900ish and you will be good to go. Very good, repeatable glass is a must if you want to be competitive. I have shot F with my Harris bipod and a rear bag that I use for tac type matches and while it works, it is not optimal F class gear.

Good luck.

I'm going to try 155's again, but they gave bad results for my last load test. At mag length, they're 0.200" from the lands, don't know if that's a factor.

[highpower790]

There is no substitute for experience.Throwing money at something will not make a good shooter.