Routine traffic stop, asked about my registered firearms

[IVC]

Under the "automobile exception" to the requirement of a valid search warrant to conduct a search, police officers don't need a warrant to search a car -- as long as they have probable cause to believe that the car contains contraband or evidence of a crime.

That's a pretty high standard. Besides, they can enter a private dwelling without a search warrant if there is an imminent threat too.

The key in this situation is that even a gun container is not a "probable cause" for anything (with some "single purpose container" wriggle room,) let alone seeing on a screen that a person has some *legal* firearms registered in their name.

The whole trick is that a fishing expedition of "do you have any guns" allows the officer to search should the poor soul answer "yes." It's due to the "e-check" (not sure what it's called now after renumbering of the code.) No matter *why* it becomes legal after a "yes" response, it's a dirty trick and an abuse of uniform - I would like to see an equivalent of Miranda rights when playing this game, e.g., "sir, you don't have to answer this question because anything you say can be used to allow me to search your vehicle, but do you have any guns on you?"

[Yugo]

I got pulled by a sheriff (reg violation) he asked if I had any guns in the car I answered yes, he pulled me out as I was saying I dont consent to a search (he quoted some law case saying my request for no search was moot).

He stuck me in the back of the squad car and searched my car, came back and asked for me to unlock the gun case (I did) he checked it all out put everything back, came back to the car and said have a great day after shaking my hand.

To this day I keep thinking how it all would have went if I had just responded "I dont have anything illegal in my car - or I do have a gun and it is locked away unloaded and legal".

The fact that LEOS have access to a list that says I have registered guns or not does not make us safer!

[TeddyBallgame]

I got pulled by a sheriff (reg violation) he asked if I had any guns in the car I answered yes, he pulled me out as I was saying I dont consent to a search (he quoted some law case saying my request for no search was moot).

He stuck me in the back of the squad car and searched my car, came back and asked for me to unlock the gun case (I did) he checked it all out put everything back, came back to the car and said have a great day after shaking my hand.

To this day I keep thinking how it all would have went if I had just responded "I dont have anything illegal in my car - or I do have a gun and it is locked away unloaded and legal".

The fact that LEOS have access to a list that says I have registered guns or not does not make us safer!

i hope you went directly to the station and filed a complaint...its the only way these violations have any chance of ending...searching your entire car solely because you admitted to having a firearm is not reasonable cause...he can tell you anything he likes during the stop, and, without follow-up on your part, he'll get away with it 100% of the time

there is no way he would've been shaking my hand afterwards either

[JDay]

i hope you went directly to the station and filed a complaint...its the only way these violations have any chance of ending...searching your entire car solely because you admitted to having a firearm is not reasonable cause...he can tell you anything he likes during the stop, and, without follow-up on your part, he'll get away with it 100% of the time



there is no way he would've been shaking my hand afterwards either

The CA PC allows this to happen.

[dorbie]

Post dash cam footage with audio.

I posted links to the audio earlier. The video does not show anything relevant.

[TonyNorCal]

It's amusing how many silly people think cops follow established protocol or the law when it comes to things like reasonable suspicion and probable cause. If a cop wants to do something, they'll just do it and make up a reason.

It's also disheartening to see comments from all the statists about how it's perfectly alright to be asking about registered firearms. The question is not relevant to the reason the stop was initiated. It has nothing to do with an illegal U-Turn.

What should be of concern, is that the computer they have has access to too much personal information. Why should it even access firearms ownership at all?

Oh, I forgot. It must be 'officer safety' or 'for the children'.

Well, where is citizen safety from too much personal information being available to the authorities?

[coolie]

This stuff really annoys me. I haven't been pulled over in about ten years. The last time the copper asked me where I was going and why I was where I was driving and so forth. I felt like I time traveled to 1930s Germany. He asked if he could have a look around my pickup and I said yes. He just peaked under and behind the seat for a minute. I drive as part of my living so getting traffic tickets is really a big deal. So I just submit in the hopes they will not write me a ticket because I was so cooperative. The last douche nozzle gave me one anyway. When I don't drive for a living anymore, I'll be telling any copper to pound sand. When my wife got pulled over she just told the turd that she didn't have time to chat and she didn't appreciate being questioned like a criminal. She fought the ticket and won and blew the a hole a kiss when they were leaving court.

[TeddyBallgame]

The CA PC allows this to happen.

maybe im wrong, but, i was always under the impression that they could only search where the firearm is, to ensure it is being transported in a legal manner...for example, if the firearm is in the trunk, there would be no legal cause to search the rest of the car without probable cause

if it is in a case in the front of the vehicle they may check that the firearm inside is being legally transported, but, the rest of the vehicle, including the trunk would be off limits

now this is assuming they don't use some other issue to try and gain consent to a search, I'm talking solely on the basis on a person legally transporting a firearm

maybe a LE can clear this up, im sure i've read it that way many times, even right on this forum

[TeddyBallgame]

It's amusing how many silly people think cops follow established protocol or the law when it comes to things like reasonable suspicion and probable cause. If a cop wants to do something, they'll just do it and make up a reason.

It's also disheartening to see comments from all the statists about how it's perfectly alright to be asking about registered firearms. The question is not relevant to the reason the stop was initiated. It has nothing to do with an illegal U-Turn.

What should be of concern, is that the computer they have has access to too much personal information. Why should it even access firearms ownership at all?

Oh, I forgot. It must be 'officer safety' or 'for the children'.

Well, where is citizen safety from too much personal information being available to the authorities?

I agree wholeheartedly, it's becoming a farce as to how our basic rights can be so easily trampled...somewhat reminds me of those DV "phone-ins"...someone a few doors away hears loud noise, reports it as domestic violence, and, suddenly that homeowner has just lost all his rights to unlawful entry, even if all parties in the house state to the contrary...they'll come to your door, and, if they are not allowed in, they will force entry, probably resulting in someone going to jail

just wait until they figure out a way to push through AB1014, talk about a loss of rights

when i was younger, i had several instances of my car being searched unlawfully, i didn't know any better...im still pissed about that lol

i will guarantee, that if it ever happens again, although i will comply if forced to, my next stop will definitely be the station wherever said officers work, so that i may file my complaint, and, i will be looking for satisfactory answers...as i already stated, we can come into these forums and bi*** and complain about what we feel to be a violation of our rights, but, i rarely read about people who actually followed up with a complaint after they had their rights violated...im more than willing to go as high up the ladder as it becomes necessary, we'll see how that pans out

if we don't at least try to create some accountability for their actions, do you really expect it to get any better?

[gwgn02]

Make sure everything is up to date and just say no to the guns question. Answer no questions other than those related to the traffic stop.

[Mayor McRifle]

when i was younger, i had several instances of my car being searched unlawfully, i didn't know any better...im still pissed about that lol

When I was a kid, we would get pulled over regularly at night for "license and registration checks." Basically, they wanted to see if we seemed under the influence in any way. When they would ask for our registration, they would immediately shine their big flashlights on our glove compartments so they could take a look at what was in there ("plain view") when we opened it to retrieve the car's registration. Because of that, I started keeping my vehicle registration in the sun visor above my head. I still do, to this day. Old habits die hard . . .

[Decoligny]

just tell the truth, if you have a gun in the car say so when asked, if you don't say no and be done with it. First of course make sure that if you do have it in the car, its locked, legally stored and there is no ammo with it. The cop may or may not check once you say yes and move on. If you are legal you have nothing to fear.

I agree they should not be asking that stuff and I am torn if they need that information or not, since on the safety side if i was a cop i would want to know if the person i am stopping may have a gun and can shoot back, but on the other hand, if the database says I legally have a gun, that already implies I am a "safer" stop since I am likely a law abiding citizen who does not pull a gun on a whim, if I did, I would not be legal anymore.

I can see both sides here...

My problem is transport...I have truck or a motorcycle, legal locked away from driver storage is at a premium but I do the best I can and hope that showing I tried with the best intentions will be good enough. Lock the ammo in its own bag, guns locked in case, maybe next to each other and yes in my truck I could reach both but they are separately locked and behind the seat in the truck, both in same trunk on motorcycle.

There is no requirement in the Penal Code that they be "away from driver".

I would be 100% in compliance with the Penal Code if I have my unloaded handgun, and all my full magazines, and 10 boxes of ammo locked in a briefcase sitting on my lap while driving in my car.

When I was on my motorcycle, pre-CCW, I would have my gun and magazines locked in a metal box in my backpack. I could easily swing my backpack around, hit the combo, and load up in a matter of seconds. This transport method too is 100% legal per the Penal Code.

[JDay]

i will guarantee, that if it ever happens again, although i will comply if forced to, my next stop will definitely be the station wherever said officers work, so that i may file my complaint, and, i will be looking for satisfactory answers...as i already stated, we can come into these forums and bi*** and complain about what we feel to be a violation of our rights, but, i rarely read about people who actually followed up with a complaint after they had their rights violated...im more than willing to go as high up the ladder as it becomes necessary, we'll see how that pans out

Filing complaints with the department is useless, their fellow officers are the ones who take it. What you need to do is file a civil rights lawsuit.

[mt417]

There is no requirement in the Penal Code that they be "away from driver".

I would be 100% in compliance with the Penal Code if I have my unloaded handgun, and all my full magazines, and 10 boxes of ammo locked in a briefcase sitting on my lap while driving in my car.

When I was on my motorcycle, pre-CCW, I would have my gun and magazines locked in a metal box in my backpack. I could easily swing my backpack around, hit the combo, and load up in a matter of seconds. This transport method too is 100% legal per the Penal Code.

You sound like one of those sovereign citizens, better watch out for you, I mean, who needs a gun?

[Decoligny]

The CA PC allows this to happen.

No the CA PC allows the officer to check to see if the firearm is loaded. It does not give him Carte Blanche to search the entire vehicle. At the most is gives him the authority to require you to disclose the location of the firearm, and gives him the authority to sieze the firearm for the brief amount of time it takes to verify that it is indeed unloaded. It doesn't even give him the authority to retain possession of the firearm while he runs the serial number.