Lawful Self Defense/Castle Doctrine?

[ccmc]

Does this fall under either? And will the homeowner face civil liability given California's diluted version of Castle Doctrine?

http://www.marinij.com/crimebeat/ci_26166982/police-investigate-shooting-corte-madera-home

Mods, please move if incorrect forum.

[six seven tango]

He went into the house to get his gun and then returned to the garage. No mention of locking the house/garage door to keep the guy out and calling 911. Not so sure a self defense claim is going to work in this case.

Now, if he'd gone in the house, locked the door and the other guy had tried to break in I could see justification. Just my .02

[scotchblade]

He went into the house to get his gun and then returned to the garage. No mention of locking the house/garage door to keep the guy out and calling 911. Not so sure a self defense claim is going to work in this case.

Now, if he'd gone in the house, locked the door and the other guy had tried to break in I could see justification. Just my .02

That's how I see it. I would have stayed inside (I'm sure it's a big enough house) and called 911. If the guy tried to get inside and track me down (STAY AWAY! I HAVE A GUN!) and he still came at me, then I'd let him have it.

The way the article is written, he grabbed his .357 from inside the house, went back outside and shot him.

[cr1ms0njyhad]

Does this fall under either? And will the homeowner face civil liability given California's diluted version of Castle Doctrine?

http://www.marinij.com/crimebeat/ci_26166982/police-investigate-shooting-corte-madera-home

Mods, please move if incorrect forum.

I suspect he will end up in prison. The courts have, in the past, used the firing of a warning shot to indicate that the person was not in fear of their life.

So assuming that the article is accurate, and he did: Rush home, get his gun, fire a warning shot into the hillside, and then fire two shots into the assailant. He's probably not going to be allowed to plead self defense.

[Condorguns]

I also don't see how he will pull off a self defense on this one. Unless info is missing and the guy came after him into the house.

[tamalpias]

The other guy drove into his garage, to me that is an act of aggression, I would acquit with known evidence at hand.

[SkyHawk]

If I might play devil's advocate, the person who blocked the shooters garage door from closing using his car to do it, is no different than someone jamming their foot in your front door when you are trying to close it. The 'warning shot' may have just been a missed shot. Also the age of the person may come into play, at 71 you might feel much more vulnerable than at 45 yrs.

Entering the garage of a stranger is burglary, that is well established. So is entering the garage of a stranger while the owner is in the garage, not a home invasion?

What happened on the road has no bearing - once you follow someone to their house and prevent them from closing the door, you have escalated matters to a whole new level. By trying to enter his own garage and close the door behind him, the shooter signaled a desire to end any discourse that may have happened on the road.

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out for sure...

UPDATE -shooter was arrested: http://larkspurcortemadera.patch.com...of-tiburon-man

His defense attorney said this:

"This is a clear case of self-defense," Charles D. Dresow told marinij.com. "I am confident that the facts will ultimately prove that Dr. Simon was in fear for his life and the life of his wife. He acted solely in self-defense. The other driver chased Dr. Simon and his wife down their driveway and even drove his car into the garage while Dr. Simon was attempting to close the garage door behind him. Dr. Simon and his family sincerely hope the other driver recovers."

[cr1ms0njyhad]

A 71 year old man shooting a 69 year old man. You would think both parties were old enough to know better than to get into a pissing match on the road (which is what the 'road rage' part sounds like in the article).

The update posted REALLY makes it sound bad for the shooter though. It makes it sound like the doc drove into his garage with the 69yr old literally hot on his bumper and closed his garage door down on the hood of the car. Then went inside, got his gun, went outside onto his driveway and shot the man.

"James Stephen Simon shot the 69-year-old Tiburon man twice in the torso with a .357-caliber revolver in the front driveway of his home in the 5000 block of Paradise Drive in Corte Madera," Lt. Michael Norton said.

Hope it all ends well, but I have a bad feeling he's going to get crucified. The civil suits are certain to get nasty even if his lawyer can get him out of criminal charges.

[estrom]

This will get interesting for sure. I wouldn't think Simon would have any case at all were it not for the fact that the guy tried to drive into his garage behind him. I would call that clear intent and aggression. Too many unkowns though at this point. What was the response to the "warning shot"? Did the guy begin to back up, or did he become more aggressive? Was his car able to be driven away after the garage door closed on it? Seems like lots of irrational behavior on both parts until we know more.

This is probably a no-brainer/non-case in most other states. Guy goes onto someone's property in an assaulting/aggressive manner (driving into his garage) probably gives the homeowner the right to act in defense.

[tamalpias]

if it was in his garage that is one thing, but he went outside his house and shot the guy in the driveway.

[SkyHawk]

if it was in his garage that is one thing, but he went outside his house and shot the guy in the driveway.

There's a fine line between the driveway and the garage, usually just an expansion gap in the concrete. We don't know if he was standing in the garage and fell into the driveway. I wouldn't jump to conclusions on where he was shot - it's way too early to call a man guilty, unless we're living in Russia or Sanford FL.

[ccmc]

There's a fine line between the driveway and the garage, usually just an expansion gap in the concrete. We don't know if he was standing in the garage and fell into the driveway. I wouldn't jump to conclusions on where he was shot - it's way too early to call a man guilty, unless we're living in Russia or Sanford FL.

Zimmerman wasn't arrested by Sanford PD the night of the incident as it was a clear case of self defense (which was the ultimate jury finding). The pressure to later arrest came from political forces outside of Sanford starting at the top ("If I had a son blah blah"), and most of the demonstrators that besieged Sanford during the trial weren't from there. Otherwise your point is well taken.

[IVC]

The courts have, in the past, used the firing of a warning shot to indicate that the person was not in fear of their life.

If Chewbacca defense doesn't work, Biden defense just might...

As long as he NEVER EVER mentions "warning shot" and lets his attorney describe it as a "miss" he should have a decent case. The unknown person was in his garage or at least trying to enter if the closing gate hit his car.

A warning shot is illegal (as far ar I know) in most states precisely to avoid using deadly force when it's not warranted.

[IVC]

if it was in his garage that is one thing, but he went outside his house and shot the guy in the driveway.

Self defense is not limited to one's house. It's just that there are many automatic presumptions in favor of the homeowner if it happens in the house.

For example, if a stranger forcibly enters one's house, the homeowner doesn't have to wait for any additional aggressive behavior - the forced entry is already considered a violent threat.

In this case, driving into one's garage to the point that the car is hit by the closing gate shows the violent intent similar to that of any other forced entry. It also establishes that the shooter was trying to avoid confrontation.

The warning shot is what will be the biggest problem. All gun owners should know not to do it...

[GardoneVT]

"Simon is believed to have gone inside his home to retrieve a .357-caliber revolver, then fired one warning shot into the hillside across from his home. Police said he then shot the Tiburon man two times in the abdomen"

If he had time to get his revolver and shoot it into the countryside-which could be reckless endangerment right there depending on where the weapon was aimed- he had time to dial 911 and hole up for the cavalry.