Can a SSE backfire in court?

[riderr]

I still haven't seen anyone find an actual case that was negatively impacted by legally possessed SSE handgun. Maybe they are out there, but considering this question seems to get asked nearly every other day and none have been provided yet I'd find something else to worry about.

Moreover, we have quite a lot friendly law enforcement officers of any kind here, with quite a deep knowledge of the legislation. If there was a case where SSE was a factor, they would have certainly shared the info.

[jeremiah12]

There are all sorts of ways to acquire an off-roster gun (for my examples I will assume the gun is a semi-auto). Yes, if you buy is as an SSE, that is how it is DROSed and recorded with the state.

You can get one through an interfamilial gift from an out of state family member. It will be DROSed as a semi-auto. You can buy it from a LEO through a PPT. It will be DROSed as a semi-auto.

You can buy it from another private CA seller through PPT. Even if it was originally purchased and DROSed as an SSE, during the PPT it will be DROSed as a semi-auto (assuming it was restored to semi-auto from SSE after it was originally purchased).

And you can buy one through the SSE process. Then after you take possession of it, restore it to a semi-auto and gift it to your adult child. Use the OPLaw form to record the transaction with the state and the state will register it to your adult child as a semi-auto. I know this is true, I did this.

Now, this gun is GTG for a Sheriff that does not accept SSE guns for CCW permits.

So, this is just more LGS FUD unless the OP can be given a link to verify the story. Any attorney worth his or her salt would be able to tear apart such BS if a DA were using it. Besides showing all the different ways to get the same gun and have it registered as a semi-auto rather than an SSE, there is the problem that if one were using an illegally CC weapon to legally defend oneself in a self-defense situation and it was a good shoot, then their is an exception to the illegal CC charge.

It would be the same BS if you happened to be in your home and were getting ready to clean one of your competition shooting guns with a 2 lb trigger pull when 4 thugs break in on an home invasion attempt. You slap in your mag and blast away. It was ruled a good shoot because the 4 thugs had guns and busted down your door. The 2 lb trigger pull will not matter. It might come up, but a good attorney can deal with it.

[MikeSmith]

There are all sorts of ways to acquire an off-roster gun (for my examples I will assume the gun is a semi-auto). Yes, if you buy is as an SSE, that is how it is DROSed and recorded with the state.

You can get one through an interfamilial gift from an out of state family member. It will be DROSed as a semi-auto. You can buy it from a LEO through a PPT. It will be DROSed as a semi-auto.

You can buy it from another private CA seller through PPT. Even if it was originally purchased and DROSed as an SSE, during the PPT it will be DROSed as a semi-auto (assuming it was restored to semi-auto from SSE after it was originally purchased).

And you can buy one through the SSE process. Then after you take possession of it, restore it to a semi-auto and gift it to your adult child. Use the OPLaw form to record the transaction with the state and the state will register it to your adult child as a semi-auto. I know this is true, I did this.

Now, this gun is GTG for a Sheriff that does not accept SSE guns for CCW permits.

So, this is just more LGS FUD unless the OP can be given a link to verify the story. Any attorney worth his or her salt would be able to tear apart such BS if a DA were using it. Besides showing all the different ways to get the same gun and have it registered as a semi-auto rather than an SSE, there is the problem that if one were using an illegally CC weapon to legally defend oneself in a self-defense situation and it was a good shoot, then their is an exception to the illegal CC charge.

It would be the same BS if you happened to be in your home and were getting ready to clean one of your competition shooting guns with a 2 lb trigger pull when 4 thugs break in on an home invasion attempt. You slap in your mag and blast away. It was ruled a good shoot because the 4 thugs had guns and busted down your door. The 2 lb trigger pull will not matter. It might come up, but a good attorney can deal with it.

Thank you for that info.

[CBR_rider]

SSE can help the prosecuting side. Just like putting a laser etc on your firearm can make you look like a cold blooded murderer and help with prosecuting side.

You think this would be more likely to be used by a DA as opposed to an opposing attorney in a civil suit? Please.

[sl0re10]

I've always had this in the back of my mind when thinking about buying a SSE handgun. Like the part where the gun is supposed to be registered as a single shot. In the courts eyes won't they see it the same way?

Yes; but you should be able to fall back on 'its legal to modify your gun' provided you don't make it violate specific rules in the penal code (re: full auto, turn a rifle into a short barreled weapon, and such). But modifying a single shot into a semi auto is not on that list.

Also; just like it is legal to modify your legally owned gun... its still legal to build your own gun from scratch provided it doesn't violate the same set of rules mentioned above.'

At which point; they should let their argument go.

[-hanko]

Read up on the Gary Fadden Incident. Guy got dragged through the court system simply because he defended his fiance and himself with a NFA select fire weapon.

Yes you can CCW and defend yourself with a SSE weapon, but it will make your lawyer's job easier if you used something from the "safe gun" list. Heck, maybe it's the minor detail that convinces a feinstein-wannabe DA to drop charges.

An NFA example is beyond a stretch. Iirc, there have been only 2-3 prosecutions for crimes committed with registered Title II weapons, and that's since the NFA registry started.

Beyond that, there is NO way you'll be getting a select-fire weapon in California.

Defending yourself with a personally owned machine gun isn't going to be treated the same as an SSE handgun. That's just ridiculous.

See above.

+1
Case#, city, hell, what kind of firearm was supposed to be used? If that's the reason they don't do SSE - they should be able to give you specifics of the case. If they can't give you specificis - it's just unfounded fear. IMHO.

SSE can help the prosecuting side. Just like putting a laser etc on your firearm can make you look like a cold blooded murderer and help with prosecuting side.

I've responded to this crap here so many times I should make it a Word document.

Care to cite ANY case where a good shoot has resulted in the shooter being criminally prosecuted?? Nope, nor can Mas Ayoob. If you can, I would love to be educated. Before you cite the case of the idiot in Arizona that used a 10mm, note that one juror said she was bothered. The idiot was convicted due to a combination of "anger management" issues combined with a high level of a psychological "wack-job" history...i.e., not a good shoot.

You think this would be more likely to be used by a DA as opposed to an opposing attorney in a civil suit? Please.

Again, I haven't ever been able to find a criminal case involving a good shoot...modified gun or not.

Anyone can mount a civil suit for anything...hot McDonalds coffee and up from there.

That's why you carry insurance and have talked to an attorney prior to getting your license.

Please let the modified gun / DA / good shoot FUD die.

[RobertMW]

I've always had this in the back of my mind when thinking about buying a SSE handgun. Like the part where the gun is supposed to be registered as a single shot. In the courts eyes won't they see it the same way?

The thing is, there is no federal or state law that says you are not allowed to do whatever you want to your personal firearms. Hell, we all (or most) know that you can build your own from scratch. That only changes if the state or fed creates a law saying you can't. California currently has Bills going through the legislature that will A) eliminate SSE B) Hinder you from creating your own firearms by requiring you to get a serial number from the state.

Get on your phone and call your legislator and ask them to oppose these Bills.

[CBR_rider]

Please let the modified gun / DA / good shoot FUD die.

We can dream, can't we?

[SDM44]

Yes; but you should be able to fall back on 'its legal to modify your gun' provided you don't make it violate specific rules in the penal code (re: full auto, turn a rifle into a short barreled weapon, and such). But modifying a single shot into a semi auto is not on that list.

Also; just like it is legal to modify your legally owned gun... its still legal to build your own gun from scratch provided it doesn't violate the same set of rules mentioned above.'

This is your best defense here, and make sure you retain an attorney who can lookup and cite these PC's and laws out there clearly & concisely to the judge and jury.

[Sojournertruth]

the gun transfers to you as a SSE. good. yes, now its your property.

theres no law against converting a gun you own from SSE to semi auto or from SA to DA

until there is, I wouldn't worry about it

[MikeSmith]

Care to cite ANY case where a good shoot has resulted in the shooter being criminally prosecuted?? Nope, nor can Mas Ayoob. If you can, I would love to be educated. Before you cite the case of the idiot in Arizona that used a 10mm, note that one juror said she was bothered. The idiot was convicted due to a combination of "anger management" issues combined with a high level of a psychological "wack-job" history...i.e., not a good shoot.


Again, I haven't ever been able to find a criminal case involving a good shoot...modified gun or not.

Anyone can mount a civil suit for anything...hot McDonalds coffee and up from there.

That's why you carry insurance and have talked to an attorney prior to getting your license.

Please let the modified gun / DA / good shoot FUD die.

Thanks for that info that puts my mind at ease somewhat. I'm going to make the assumption that the shop owner made up the story to scare people away from SSE.

[Merc1138]

Thanks for that info that puts my mind at ease somewhat. I'm going to make the assumption that the shop owner made up the story to scare people away from SSE.

More like trying to scare you into buying what he's willing to sell instead.