Okay to shoot when assault in progress?

[rambutan316]

Let's say you have a carry permit and observe someone being beaten. Are you allowed to fatally shoot the perpetrator? Please excuse my ignorance regarding this matter. I am allowed to carry in my area (former CA resident now living in AZ) and have been carrying for the past few months. I know that I am allowed to defend myself from grave bodily injury or harm, but not sure how it would apply to other victims. I do not wish to become a vigilante, but would like to stop a crime in progress if I happened to stumble upon one.

[Dead*Reckoned]

I know it's always a great thing to want to help somebody in that situation.... but unless I saw that they were in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm I would try to find an alternate way to stop the assault. hopefully pepper spray would stop the attack, but I would try to be ready in case it did escalate.

[sdblu]

IANAL but Yes you are allowed but you must make sure or atleast be able to prove it was a justified defensive act.

You must show that you tried less than lethal solutions prior to using your firearm, ( shouting to stop, threatening to call police, even becoming physically involved if it can be done safely) , unless the assault it at a point where the victims life is in grave danger.

A good resource for this would be Masaad Ayoob http://www.ayoob.com


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[philobeddoe]

Just shoot up in the air a couple of times and shout "quit it!"

[sfpcservice]

IANAL but Yes you are allowed but you must make sure or atleast be able to prove it was a justified defensive act.

You must show that you tried less than lethal solutions prior to using your firearm, ( shouting to stop, threatening to call police, even becoming physically involved if it can be done safely) , unless the assault it at a point where the victims life is in grave danger.

A good resource for this would be Masaad Ayoob http://www.ayoob.com


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In California the law states that you must reasonably believe that lethal force was needed to prevent death or great bodily injury. There is no requirement in law that states you must use escalating force starting with yelling stop. That would be unreasonable if you came upon someone with a bat over their head aimed at a person on the ground, or other lethal weapon poised ready to kill or injure greatly. Yelling stop might get the victim and you killed. Your freedom may depend on your ability to articulate the perceived need for lethal force in that time-frame and situation.

CA Jury instructions for justifiable homicide are way more down to earth than you would expect from CA.

This is not legal advice, just my interpretation of living in CA.

[Oceanbob]

It would have to be an obvious deadly situation otherwise you could be arrested and sued by all parties. I tend to shy away from gun play. JMO.

Call 911 and stand by if it's just a fight.

[manywelps]

Let's say you have a carry permit and observe someone being beaten. Are you allowed to fatally shoot the perpetrator? Please excuse my ignorance regarding this matter. I am allowed to carry in my area (former CA resident now living in AZ) and have been carrying for the past few months. I know that I am allowed to defend myself from grave bodily injury or harm, but not sure how it would apply to other victims. I do not wish to become a vigilante, but would like to stop a crime in progress if I happened to stumble upon one.

Legally yes.

Technically you have no idea wtf is going on. It could be someone attacking an armed robber and trying to keep him from shooting.

Target discrimination is very difficult.

[voiceofreason]

You most likely will not know for certain what transpired before you arrived and the background of their relationship.

It could be an undercover cop defending himself against a criminal and currently winning. Shooting the UC would be ill advised.

That said, you could legally use lethal force to defend the lives of others if the three standards are met:

http://www.spw-duf.info/force.html

[Jimmybacon43]

Intervention with a gun would be a pretty bad idea. I mean, if it's just two guys fighting? You don't know who they are, they may both be criminals.

I think pretty much the only time I would intervene with a firearm would be if a woman or a child was being assaulted. And then, it would have to be plain as day that that's what was going on. Maybe an elderly person...but if it's just two guys fighting? Forget it. I'll call the police and let them work it out.

[dobek]

You have Legal question & moral question

How many times do cops break up a domestic violence scene - only to have BOTH parties turn on them.

I'd say yell - tell them you are dialing 911 - get good descriptions -

I don't know if I want to spend all of my life savings defending myself - when I don't have all the facts - - -

The "attacker" could very well be fighting for HIS life - and may be the innocent party.

Steve

[IVth Horseman]

You have Legal question & moral question

I'd say yell - tell them you are dialing 911 - get good descriptions -

I don't know if I want to spend all of my life savings defending myself - when I don't have all the facts - - -

The "attacker" could very well be fighting for HIS life - and may be the innocent party.

Steve

This is the answer

There's usually more to a situation than shown on the surface. Yell from a distance, call 911 with exact location and descriptions, and draw your weapon only if the "victim" is on the ground with his head being stomped on, hit in the head with a bat, or being eaten by zombies. And even then, aim your weapon and inform them that you're armed. If they don't stop, then fire.

I'm a liability minded individual, so, I don't play hero unless absolutely necessary. As much as I hate this idea, its the injustice we live in.

[mif_slim]

From what my instructor told me, domestic violence isn't something you a ccw carrier want to be in. Could be just two nest friends hashing to see what they've learned that evening in MMA class and you shot his best friend... now charges are on you.

I wouldn't do it unless I've tried different ways to stop them (not approaching and yanking the guy off the other)...

[Mayor McRifle]

I do not wish to become a vigilante, but would like to stop a crime in progress if I happened to stumble upon one.

Don't use deadly force to stop a crime in progress. Only use deadly force in self defense or defense of others to prevent death or great bodily injury.

[003]

Based on the very limited informaiton you provided in your question, I would say it is a very bad idea. Be a good witness and call the police. Dial 911, but do not introduce a firearm. Are you sure you completely understand the situation? Is it possible it is a husband/wife family fight that got out of hand? A father with a teen family member that is UI? Lot's of things can look like an assault when it really is not.

[diverwcw]

Your best bet is to sign up for a CCW class in Arizona. They teach what to do.