done

[flyingcaveman]

Well, if the police check the database first, it biases the investigation. As if owning them is an indication of a pre-crime. Also, now you have a situation where the registered owner of guns has less rights that somebody who has unregistered ones (legally or illegally) It crosses the line between investigating and evidence gathering.

[Mitch]

vaguely threaten the POTUS online and see what happens.

No, that's a targeted threat. Pretty sure that's illegal no matter who the target is.

But making on-line video threats against, say, "all women who won't sleep with me," is that even actionable?

[cjc16]

Really? Exactly how would it go differently if the cops were aware that he was making perfectly legal purchases in a fashion similar to almost every poster on these forums? I bought more handguns than there were months last year, does that make me suspicious?

What in the information from the database would have allowed them to act any differently that the situation would have changed so drastically?

no, but then again most of our parents don't ask the police to do a welfare check either. IMO, it could have put the questioning of this kid on a more productive path. I'm sure they wouldn't have come back to the station and said he was a polite and perfectly harmless. I'm not saying they would have the right to confiscate or see the guns but just as another red flag to look a little deeper.

[cjc16]

No, that's a targeted threat. Pretty sure that's illegal no matter who the target is.

But making on-line video threats against, say, "all women who won't sleep with me," is that even actionable?

i would guess not.

[Grimjack]

Unless he met the criteria for a 5150 W&I hold it would not matter if they had checked a database for gun ownership or not. He legally owned them. When the cops spoke with him he gave no indication of being a danger to himself or others, or unable to care for himself.

All this arm chair quarterbacking is pointless.

[67goat]

no, but then again most of our parents don't ask the police to do a welfare check either. IMO, it could have put the questioning of this kid on a more productive path. I'm sure they wouldn't have come back to the station and said he was a polite and perfectly harmless. I'm not saying they would have the right to confiscate or see the guns but just as another red flag to look a little deeper.

If you think owning a gun is a red flag, this forum is probably not the right place to be.

I'm sure they are aware that he had access to knives or the plethora of you can pick up at any Walmart to make poisons or explosives. How does owning a gun make him more of a danger?

And you're sure that having this info would lead them down a more productive path of questioning (even though no illegal activity would have been discovered and such knowledge would give the cops no additional rights or authority), but you just don't know how exactly. Sounds great.

[Grimjack]

His Shrink reported to the police as well and mentioned the troubling videos on YouTube. No one in law enforcement watched those videos.

His shrink, if he/she was concerned enough, had the absolute ability to place him on a 5150 W&I and call the cops to do the physical detention. It happens frequently.

[cjc16]

If you think owning a gun is a red flag, this forum is probably not the right place to be.

I'm sure they are aware that he had access to knives or the plethora of you can pick up at any Walmart to make poisons or explosives. How does owning a gun make him more of a danger?

And you're sure that having this info would lead them down a more productive path of questioning (even though no illegal activity would have been discovered and such knowledge would give the cops no additional rights or authority), but you just don't know how exactly. Sounds great.

take it easy bud. I'm on your side when it comes to registration and police access to info. I'm just saying that the information is readily available to law enforcement already if we like it or not. If you start ranting about killing someone with fertilizer bomb on this forum and the police can legally access information that you bought 1000lbs of fertilizer, I think you got a problem.

[cjc16]

....... not abusing the firearms database.

These days I'm not sure if it would be legally considered an abuse of the DOJ database. I honestly don't know the answer.

[Mitch]

take it easy bud. I'm on your side when it comes to registration and police access to info. I'm just saying that the information is readily available to law enforcement already if we like it or not. If you start ranting about killing someone with fertilizer bomb on this forum and the police can legally access information that you bought 1000lbs of fertilizer, I think you got a problem.

Being in possession of 1,000lbs of fertilizer is unusual.

Being in possession of firearms is not.

[RickD427]

His shrink, if he/she was concerned enough, had the absolute ability to place him on a 5150 W&I and call the cops to do the physical detention. It happens frequently.

Grimjack,

Only a peace officer, or specifically designated medical professionals (those must be employed by a county-designated hospital facility) hold 5150 detention authority. (Refer to WIC section 5150(a)).

A psychiatrist in private practice does not have any authority to perform a 5150 hold.

[cjc16]

Being in possession of 1,000lbs of fertilizer is unusual.

Being in possession of firearms is not.

true, but posting manifestos about slaughtering women on youtube and parents asking for police welfare checks are also unusual.
Listen, Do I think the police dropped the ball? yes to an extent. Honestly I don't think there was much they could do and they probably get a lot of calls from frantic parents about their weird kids. But, IMO the only thing that would have prevented this or at least mitigated the violence would have been a legal access to CCW in I.V. A trained sheepdog would have had this kid down quick.

[dustoff31]

His shrink, if he/she was concerned enough, had the absolute ability to place him on a 5150 W&I and call the cops to do the physical detention. It happens frequently.

It does happen frequently. Although it seems that it doesn't happen frequently enough in regard to those who go on to commit mass murder.

Once again we see that as in virtually every mass shooting in the past several years, a number of people, doctors, family, and others all had "concerns" about the suspect, but nobody acted on it.

[dustoff31]

Grimjack,

Only a peace officer, or specifically designated medical professionals (those must be employed by a county-designated hospital facility) hold 5150 detention authority. (Refer to WIC section 5150(a)).

A psychiatrist in private practice does not have any authority to perform a 5150 hold.

You are quite correct that not just any doctor can write 5150 orders. But if the doctor in question cannot, I'm sure he knows someone who can. Assuming he felt it necessary of course.

[Ninety]

true, but posting manifestos about slaughtering women on youtube and parents asking for police welfare checks are also unusual.
Listen, Do I think the police dropped the ball? yes to an extent. Honestly I don't think there was much they could do and they probably get a lot of calls from frantic parents about their weird kids. But, IMO the only thing that would have prevented this or at least mitigated the violence would have been a legal access to CCW in I.V. A trained sheepdog would have had this kid down quick.

I agree..

The reason so many are dead and injured is not because of this kid having a gun, but because of the lack of guns around to protect oneself and others from lunatics like this kid.

He killed 3 with a knife.. how that happened I have no clue. Maybe in their sleep.. I didn't look into it..