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Furthermore, in the "final statement of reasons" document from the AWB comment period there is this: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...regs/fsor.pdf?
So any contortions required to somehow shoehorn in a definition of pistol grip without a traditional pistol style grasp, must meet the common man definition. And that's going to require your fingers to actually wrap around something. Or have you known a common pistol to have a grip in which you don't use your fingers to wrap around a fairly thick shaft?
Furthermore, the definition stated in 11 CCR 5469(d) says: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag.../chapter39.pdf
A pistol style grasp is required. Web of the hand is a secondary, refining statement. Without a pistol style grasp, the grip is not a pistol grip, regardless of where the web of the hand is.
I disagree that the way you can grasp an AFG's triangle is in any way similar to the spur. (However, the forward pistol grip definition is a completely different animal and not part of this discussion as both items are defined differently. For more discussion on the FPG, see: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=254388)
This was all hashed out back in the 1990s-early 2000s and again, here, in the mid 2000's at the beginning of the OLL revolution.
Ultimately, the argument is academic as the spur is no match for any of the other modern featureless grip designs (Monsterman, Thordo, fin, U-15 or Exile).
978.20 (e) - Pistol Grip that Protrudes Conspicuously Beneath the Action of the Weapon
This term was originally defined as “any component that allows for the grasp, control, and fire of the firearm where the portion grasped is located beneath an imaginary line drawn parallel to the barrel that runs through the top of the exposed trigger” and noticed during the initial comment period (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000). This definition was subject to broad interpretation primarily due to the wording “any component.” The definition was accordingly initially revised by replacing “any component” with “a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp.”
The Department believes that the concept of a “pistol style grasp” is generally understood by persons affected by the regulations. This revision: “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp below the top of the exposed trigger” was noticed to the public during the first 15-day notice period (May 10 through May 30, 2000).
Subsequent comments resulted in additional modifications. To further clarify the criteria that establishes a “pistol style grasp” and its relationship to a grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, the condition “in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing” was added to the definition. The revision also reflects a change from “top of the exposed trigger” to “top of the exposed portion of the trigger” because as one contributor pointed out, the former would mean the upper portion of a trigger, a part of which is exposed, with the balance hidden from view in the receiver of the firearm. The final revised definition: “Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing” was noticed during the second 15-daycomment period (July 12 through July 31, 2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the second 15-day comment period that warranted additional revisions to the definition.
This term was originally defined as “any component that allows for the grasp, control, and fire of the firearm where the portion grasped is located beneath an imaginary line drawn parallel to the barrel that runs through the top of the exposed trigger” and noticed during the initial comment period (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000). This definition was subject to broad interpretation primarily due to the wording “any component.” The definition was accordingly initially revised by replacing “any component” with “a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp.”
The Department believes that the concept of a “pistol style grasp” is generally understood by persons affected by the regulations. This revision: “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp below the top of the exposed trigger” was noticed to the public during the first 15-day notice period (May 10 through May 30, 2000).
Subsequent comments resulted in additional modifications. To further clarify the criteria that establishes a “pistol style grasp” and its relationship to a grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, the condition “in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing” was added to the definition. The revision also reflects a change from “top of the exposed trigger” to “top of the exposed portion of the trigger” because as one contributor pointed out, the former would mean the upper portion of a trigger, a part of which is exposed, with the balance hidden from view in the receiver of the firearm. The final revised definition: “Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing” was noticed during the second 15-daycomment period (July 12 through July 31, 2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the second 15-day comment period that warranted additional revisions to the definition.
So any contortions required to somehow shoehorn in a definition of pistol grip without a traditional pistol style grasp, must meet the common man definition. And that's going to require your fingers to actually wrap around something. Or have you known a common pistol to have a grip in which you don't use your fingers to wrap around a fairly thick shaft?
Furthermore, the definition stated in 11 CCR 5469(d) says: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag.../chapter39.pdf
(d)
"pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.
"pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.
I disagree that the way you can grasp an AFG's triangle is in any way similar to the spur. (However, the forward pistol grip definition is a completely different animal and not part of this discussion as both items are defined differently. For more discussion on the FPG, see: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=254388)
This was all hashed out back in the 1990s-early 2000s and again, here, in the mid 2000's at the beginning of the OLL revolution.
Ultimately, the argument is academic as the spur is no match for any of the other modern featureless grip designs (Monsterman, Thordo, fin, U-15 or Exile).
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