Masculinity and Gun Culture

[MisplacedTexan]

It might not have worked in your specific situation but when I encounter those types of situations I tend to have fun w/ the tactic of Reductio ad Absurdum (taking the argument to an absurd and unpleasant conclusion).

Typically they way I do that is via the other amendments - want limits on 2nd? Well I agree w/ you - we should also limit the 1st amendment as well because some speech can be "hurtful" and "mean" - I love it when people take the bait since that opens the Pandoras box to discuss other freedoms.... the 5th as well as others...... If you really get them going you can start talking about limiting the 13-15th amendments AND if you do you really can embarrass a liberal.

[Gem1950]

On Masculinity

Guess you weren't/aren't properly equipped to respond to your unaware classmates' views on public safety.

That said - There are plenty of non-firearm related examples of toxic masculinity in our society (culture).

[geoint]

I'm currently a student at a Cal State University in Socal for my Bachelor's in Business. One of the classes I'm required to take is "Interdisciplinary Writing", essentially how to analyze and write research papers. One of our final projects is to lead the class in a 15 minute open discussion on a topic you wrote about in your research paper.

Well today somebody did theirs on gun culture and how it relates to masculinity in today's men. Specifically the presenter showed us this ad:


and this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHWTfFV3Vc

(I had seen both already)
and had us analyze them and discuss why we thought guns were important to masculinity. Answers were 100% either neutral or negative in their view of firearms owners. They ranged from "symbolizes an erect phallus" to "used for violence, which is important to men". About the Glock ad, someone said the girl is "overly sexualized" and uses the Glock to "rob the attacker of his manliness". The conversation did make several turns toward gun control, such as my classmates asking (rhetorically) why people needed assault rifles since you can't hunt with them, or why people need 30 round" clips". It made my blood boil, which is why I neglected to make any contribution in defense of gun owners. I'm a pretty terrible orator, and nothing I said would have changed their views.

I did have one classmate who I've previously talked guns with talk to me afterwords and we agreed it sucked to see gun owners portrayed that way. The whole thing kind of left me a little less hopeful for the future, knowing these people are who is referred to by the phrase "jury of your peers".
Just figured I'd share and see what you guys thought of that.

youll only be before a jury of your 'peers' (although i use that term loosely) if you get caught

[wpod]

When I talk with people that don't know about guns and they repeat the anti's talking points I try to cause them to actually think.
"Guns are phallic". What would be a better design?
"Who needs an assault rifle?". Easy to relate wants and needs to the individual.
"30 round clips". I can think of at least 5,000 people (over 3,000 were black) that I wish would have had high-capacity, rapid-firing firearms. These people are the confirmed victims of KKK lynchings.
Make them think about it in realistic, not idealistic, terms.

Sent from my VS950 4G using Tapatalk

[shda5582]

lots of weak nerds buy guns to be more manly, so of course theres plenty of truth to it.

Check the Zimmerman Complex.

but the same thing is true for sports cars, boats, airplanes, pornography etc. A lot of men need help to feel manly, or think they do anyway.

Can you apply it to every gun owner? Of course not. But neither can you dismiss the obvious truth.

Oh?

Lemme say a few things:

I happen to be a 'nerd'. I am not very athletic OR muscular (not a fatass though, although I could afford to lose 15lbs). I wear glasses and play video games for entertainment on an almost daily basis. Oh, and I do IT work.

Now, I don't see guns as compensation for a lack of (my) manliness. I enjoy guns and shooting sports because I enjoy things that go boom, I enjoy the challenge of pushing myself to do better, get better grouping, get a better score when I go shooting. I like hanging out with other, like-minded people when I go and there are others there.

IN NO WAY AM I WANTING TO BE ZIMMERMAN. I don't carry because I don't have a CCW. I would like one, just as I'd like an AK-47; it'd be nice but I don't feel the need to have one right now. I don't want to carry hoping that I can run across someone and justify shooting them, what sane person does?

Lastly, I never purchased a firearm to try to feel manly; I managed to do that well enough on my own before the idea of a purchase crossed my mind. It doesn't compensate for a lack of anything; if anything, it merely augments and compliments my interests and hobbies, so do NOT sit there and say that the 'nerdy' types of which I am one, NEEDS to purchase a firearm to feel more like a man. I have a family I take care of that aren't even my own kids, and that makes me FAR more of a man that you will ever be you steroid-injecting, muscle brained, limp-dicked jerkoff.

[SuperSet]

Has anyone ever said 'consider your man card issued' when their buddy got a Bushmaster? And criminals just faint when someone pulls out their Glock in sexy clothing and lighting?
Just dumb. Gun makers make the worst ads. They have the money but don't hire the best ad firms. I think of this every time I receive that cheesy Dillon Press catalog.

[GardoneVT]

Just dumb. Gun makers make the worst ads. They have the money but don't hire the best ad firms. I think of this every time I receive that cheesy Dillon Press catalog.

A lot of companies make cheesy ads.

Intellectually speaking, the classmate has a point. But that's no different then Victoria Secret using sex to sell products, or Ford filming their trucks in the country in front of a "Built Ford Tough!" banner. Gucci and Prada using runway models to sell their wares are examples of companies selling femininity .

Companies need to attach their products to an emotional concept , because business science shows that people buy products based on emotional relevance. If a product or service makes someone feel good, they'll be a lot more likely to buy it. The more positive emotions they identify with the product, the more likely they'll enjoy using it, even if the product in question isn't factually well made.

Other business-related science shows that people who think use of a product is attached to social favor will defend their purchase more compared to people who dispassionately buy the same product based on facts.
This is why iPhone users, Glock owners, and BMW drivers will defend their products almost to the death against people who suggest they're in any way deficient. By owning those products, most people feel like theyre " a part of a club", and associate that sense of belonging with it.

[Wrangler John]

Yes, men are masculine and all the more so with a big gun and tall horse or 4x4 truck. If your truck doesn't match your stallion, just get a screw driver and make amends.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use these things for a bipod.

http://www.yournutz.com/

Have fun, life is too short for taking things seriously.

[Tarasdad]

How many women's items have ads that are targeted at men rather than women? What do most car companies, motorcycle companies and other high-end items use in their ads? Sex sells. Appealing to machismo sells. Ad companies have done things like this for as long as there have advertisements.

What you saw in your classroom is the result of successful indoctrination into the "guns=bad" culture adored by the media and certain political orientations.

Oh, and those "danglers" are even available for RC trucks. Yeesh.

[IVC]

sexy

I was going to say "hot," but "sexy" works just as well...

[Gem1950]

When I talk with people that don't know about guns and they repeat the anti's talking points I try to cause them to actually think.
"Guns are phallic". What would be a better design?
"Who needs an assault rifle?". Easy to relate wants and needs to the individual.
"30 round clips". I can think of at least 5,000 people (over 3,000 were black) that I wish would have had high-capacity, rapid-firing firearms. These people are the confirmed victims of KKK lynchings.
Make them think about it in realistic, not idealistic, terms.

Sent from my VS950 4G using Tapatalk

^ ^ ^ Good. One might add women as victims of violence to that list - a list that goes on and on.

In addition - The critics don't seem to understand that the cops job is to enforce laws and catch criminals, not protect people. If the latter were the case then where is the squad car that is supposed to be parked in front of my house? But that's a little too deep for the average citizen.

Also. The primary purpose of guns is to preserve lives (freedom). The fact that sometimes guns are used to commit crimes does not negate the former.

[sl0re10]

Has anyone ever said 'consider your man card issued' when their buddy got a Bushmaster? And criminals just faint when someone pulls out their Glock in sexy clothing and lighting?
Just dumb. Gun makers make the worst ads. They have the money but don't hire the best ad firms. I think of this every time I receive that cheesy Dillon Press catalog.

I worked for an ad firm once; just had a flashback due to your post... if nothing has changed since then... some delta bravo hipster probably wrote the copy for this ad.

[morfeeis]

I'm currently a student at a Cal State University in Socal for my Bachelor's in Business. One of the classes I'm required to take is "Interdisciplinary Writing", essentially how to analyze and write research papers. One of our final projects is to lead the class in a 15 minute open discussion on a topic you wrote about in your research paper.

Well today somebody did theirs on gun culture and how it relates to masculinity in today's men. Specifically the presenter showed us this ad:


and this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHWTfFV3Vc

(I had seen both already)
and had us analyze them and discuss why we thought guns were important to masculinity. Answers were 100% either neutral or negative in their view of firearms owners. They ranged from "symbolizes an erect phallus" to "used for violence, which is important to men". About the Glock ad, someone said the girl is "overly sexualized" and uses the Glock to "rob the attacker of his manliness". The conversation did make several turns toward gun control, such as my classmates asking (rhetorically) why people needed assault rifles since you can't hunt with them, or why people need 30 round" clips". It made my blood boil, which is why I neglected to make any contribution in defense of gun owners. I'm a pretty terrible orator, and nothing I said would have changed their views.

I did have one classmate who I've previously talked guns with talk to me afterwords and we agreed it sucked to see gun owners portrayed that way. The whole thing kind of left me a little less hopeful for the future, knowing these people are who is referred to by the phrase "jury of your peers".
Just figured I'd share and see what you guys thought of that.

I still remember in my first bio-psychology class when the professor was trying to explain the the action potential of neuron she said "it's like a gun anyone know how a gun works" i raise my hand and go on and on about trigger, hammer, firing pin, primer, powder, projectile. The answer she was looking for was it's binary if it's not on it's off, odd day.

after sandy hook my super democrat professor brought it up in class and we had a lively debate about mental health that turned into a gun control free for all. I spoke my mind and rather then trying to make point after point which i have found just makes people fight harder to prove they are right, i asked questions to make those on the other side think. I don't think i turned anyone but i do think i gave them issues to think about. I don't regret speaking up and would and will do so anytime someone is willing to speak about firearms, it's a pleasure because i know the facts are on our side.

Sometimes it's better to say something that way you can at least force logic into an emotional debate.

as for masculinity i'll just say this; who needs a blue pill just sit a a 590 by your bedside give it a few strokes and you'll be ready for a few strokes.

[Go Navy]

By associating masculinity with firearms, it is a clever way to convey an anti-gun message. That is its purpose. Why? Because in today's America, masculinity = bad. It's men who have caused all of America's problems, who wage war on women, who are responsible for unhappy women, who are greedy and run heartless companies. Therefor little boys must be a) raised by women, and b) raised so as to minimize masculine traits....(hence, for example, millions of them doped with Ritalin for years). Hence, for example, denouncing contact sports, opposition to winners and losers in sports, etc.

So, my suggestion is that when the masculine demon is raised, simply declare it irrelevant because it is a deliberate straw man. Firearms and their associated rights and responsibilities, do not have a gender.

[Area 52]

So, my suggestion is that when the masculine demon is raised, simply declare it irrelevant because it is a deliberate straw man. Firearms and their associated rights and responsibilities, do not have a gender.

I feel like I have left out a key piece of info. The class is more or less a "Men Studies" class. The professor said that since we needed to read research, we first needed a topic to research. So the whole semester has been a study on different aspects of modern masculinity (this decision solely made by the professor), where they come from, and how they are seen in the real world. The presenter's discussion was specifically about masculinity and guns. If it had been a debate on gun control, I would have jumped in.