AR pistol lower question

[Pinto]

Didn't need to be - it was PPT

[Salt Works Rifles LLC.]

Ok, I was talking about if they make a handgun from a rifle.

[Pinto]

No problem - I was just addressing your statement that there was no way to tell what a stripped lower began life as.

I would say that the initial transfer of a virgin lower defines it's life. If not registered as a pistol from go, then it can never be a pistol.

[MmmSti]

http://youtu.be/xZmm9N892zk

I would not do it. Either purchase one complete via SSE, build from 80% or find an 07 FFL to assemble and then DROS as SSE pistol. I know a shop in Fresno that can build you a pistol from there stripped lowers. They manufacture them so it would be logged as a pistol even with the manufacture.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Salt Works Rifles LLC.]

If not registered as a pistol from go, then it can never be a pistol. This is correct but the question is can you convert a rifle to a handgun? No it's a SBR.

Basically what I was saying is the lower is defined upon registration and you cannot buy a brand new pistol lower that is not SSE.

[Pinto]

Why couldn't I transfer to you one of the pistol lowers I own?

Edited: I mis-read your post Salt - a transfer from me is not the same as a "brand new pistol lower". New, not on roster = SSE only

[CSACANNONEER]

If not registered as a pistol from go, then it can never be a pistol. This is correct but the question is can you convert a rifle to a handgun? No it's a SBR.

Basically what I was saying is the lower is defined upon registration and you cannot buy a brand new pistol lower that is not SSE.

Can you please cite any law to support your claim? Until someone can prove what you're saying buy citing either written law or case law, it's nothing more than pure speculation on your part. I've asked many people to provide proof of what you're saying and, to date, no one has been able to provide any concrete proof that you are correct. But, people think that just because they heard it from a FFL or a cop, it is correct and they keep propagating the same crap over and over until everyone blindly believes it. Remember that it was not quite 10 years ago when almost everyone thought that any OLL was illegal?

[Salt Works Rifles LLC.]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/atf-f-5300-11.html

Q1: What is production and what should I report?

Section 2 (a) on the second page of the form defines production as firearms manufactured during the calendar year, to included separate frames or receivers, actions or barreled actions, disposed of in commerce. A manufacturer who acquires these items from another licensed manufacturer in the assembly and production of complete firearms will include the manufacture of these firearms in their own report. Separate frames or receivers, actions, or barreled actions are to be included in this report when they are exported or disposed of in commerce to a person other than a licensed manufacturer.

Example:
If you manufacture and sell a firearm to a non-manufacturer, you are to report it in the year you sell it.
If you manufacture firearms and send them to another licensed manufacturer to finish assembly and the other manufacturer sells the firearms into commerce or exports them, then you do not include these firearms on your report.
If you manufacture a firearms part, send it to another licensed manufacturer for further assembly, and the other manufacturer returns it to you for sale into commerce or exportation, then you include these firearms on your report in the year they enter commerce or are exported.


As the manufacture determine what the receiver is when it enters commerce.

[geoint]

Forgive my ignorance but what does PPT mean?

[Salt Works Rifles LLC.]

geoint it's private party transfer.

The only stupid question is the one not asked.

[CSACANNONEER]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/atf-f-5300-11.html

Q1: What is production and what should I report?

Section 2 (a) on the second page of the form defines production as firearms manufactured during the calendar year, to included separate frames or receivers, actions or barreled actions, disposed of in commerce. A manufacturer who acquires these items from another licensed manufacturer in the assembly and production of complete firearms will include the manufacture of these firearms in their own report. Separate frames or receivers, actions, or barreled actions are to be included in this report when they are exported or disposed of in commerce to a person other than a licensed manufacturer.

Example:
If you manufacture and sell a firearm to a non-manufacturer, you are to report it in the year you sell it.
If you manufacture firearms and send them to another licensed manufacturer to finish assembly and the other manufacturer sells the firearms into commerce or exports them, then you do not include these firearms on your report.
If you manufacture a firearms part, send it to another licensed manufacturer for further assembly, and the other manufacturer returns it to you for sale into commerce or exportation, then you include these firearms on your report in the year they enter commerce or are exported.


As the manufacture determine what the receiver is when it enters commerce.

Sorry, a manufacturer who manufactures and sells a bare receiver does not declare it to be anything other than a receiver if they sell it as such. Since you are talking Federal law here, it's safe to say that someone in a few state can buy an AR receiver which has never been configured as a complete rifle and make a handgun out of it. Even if the manufacture declared the receiver to be a shotgun or rifle when they sold it, it would not be "registered" as anything. ATF&E has made it very clear that even AR lowers that have been sold by the manufacturer with LPKs and stocks attached can be legally configured as pistols as long as they have never had an upper attached while the stock was attached.

Registration, as we are referring to it, only applies to CA. Dealer Record Of Sale is a state thing. Please show me some state law that says how a specific virgin receiver is DROSed and/or registered has any legal bearing on how it can be configured.

[BHinkley]

California long gun registration?

[Salt Works Rifles LLC.]

[Salt Works Rifles LLC.]

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 # 5845(a)(4), the National Firearms Act (NFA),
defines the term "firearm" to include a weapon made from a rifle if
such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.

Utilizing the receiver of an existing rifle for the purposes of
manufacturing a handgun would constitute the making of a firearm as
defined above. Individuals desiring to make such a firearm must first
submit an ATF Form 1, Application To Make And Register a Firearm and
pay the applicable $200 making tax.

[CSACANNONEER]

OK, you are still citing Federal law that doesn't have anything to do with California Registration. I also could not find anywhere that says it is illegal to build a handgun from a virgin receiver. since you insist on quoting Federal law, here's a recent ATF&E opinion letter stating that making a handgun from a virgin receiver is legal on a Federal level no matter how it is "registered" by a state:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=13748789&postcount=72

Notice that the letter does say that state and local laws may be different. Those are what I keep asking about. I am not aware of any state law which states that once a virgin receiver is registered as a "pink wiggle monster" it is legally only a "pink wiggle monster" and can not be configured any other way.

I realize that you are trying to help. I thank you for that. I've done a lot of research about this over the years and have yet to find a definitive answer.