Taurus Judge/S&W Governor in CA?

[ElHefeDeBombaros]

O.K., O.K., I know. CA considers them "short barreled shotguns" and thus illegal. However...

Today, a customer called the gun store I work in saying he had a conversation with a local firearms attorney who was saying that there was an operation of law that can be used to own them in CA. We're not talking about a Federal Tax Stamp, it's an operation of CA law.

Anyone know what he might be referring to? It's a new one on me. Thanks.

[ChuckDizzle]

Are they really considered shot-guns? They fire normal pistol cartridges, and plenty of other pistols can fire various types of shot shells.

[six seven tango]

Are they really considered shot-guns? They fire normal pistol cartridges, and plenty of other pistols can fire various types of shot shells.

At the moment, yes, they are. Because they can fire an actual shotgun shell (.410). And until someone can change that BS definition, anyone that wants one in CA is SOL.

Pistol caliber shot shells are not shotgun shells by definition...at least for now. That's why they're legal.

As for the OP's question...tagged.

[ke6guj]

O.K., O.K., I know. CA considers them "short barreled shotguns" and thus illegal. However...

Today, a customer called the gun store I work in saying he had a conversation with a local firearms attorney who was saying that there was an operation of law that can be used to own them in CA. We're not talking about a Federal Tax Stamp, it's an operation of CA law.

Anyone know what he might be referring to? It's a new one on me. Thanks.

never heard of it.

Are they really considered shot-guns? They fire normal pistol cartridges, and plenty of other pistols can fire various types of shot shells.

no, they aren't considered shotguns, but are considered Short Barreled Shotguns.the requirement is fixed shotgun shell. a .410 shell is a shotgun shell, a 9mm shotshell is not.

[12voltguy]

PUT A FWD GRIP ON IT. AOW & reg as AOW
then you can remove fed grip
it's been posted before
think it's $5 to reg as AOW???????
miht need a trust too???????
pretty sure guy above me knows ^^^^^^^

[Quiet]

PUT A FWD GRIP ON IT. AOW & reg as AOW
then you can remove fed grip
it's been posted before
think it's $5 to reg as AOW???????
miht need a trust too???????
pretty sure guy above me knows ^^^^^^^

FYI.
Current wait time for BATFE to process a Form 1 or Form 4 is 9 months.
Form 1 (make) on an AOW is $200. Form 4 (transfer) on an AOW is $5.

[Vertigofirearms]

FYI.
Current wait time for BATFE to process a Form 1 or Form 4 is 9 months.
Form 1 (make) on an AOW is $200. Form 4 (transfer) on an AOW is $5.

Thanks for the info, didn't know.

kinda stupid now to think that anyone (in the rest of america) would "make" an AOW (from an 870 or 500). For $200 smackeroos in taxes, i would rather get an equivilant SBS.

[Quiet]

Thanks for the info, didn't know.

kinda stupid now to think that anyone (in the rest of america) would "make" an AOW (from an 870 or 500). For $200 smackeroos in taxes, i would rather get an equivilant SBS.

Some States restrict the ownership of SBR/SBS, but allow the ownership of AOW.
Which is one of the reasons why AOWs are popular.

Since, it's just $5 to transfer an AOW.
You can buy an existing AOW & have it transferred (Form 4 = $5) to you or pay ($25-100) a 07-FFL/02-SOT to make (Form 5 = free) your Title 1 Other (factory crusier style 870/500) into an AOW & then have it transferred (Form 4 = $5) back to you.

[omgwtfbbq]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there also been some mention that not only would the judge/governor be considered a short barreled shotgun but also a shotgun with a relolving cylinder?

It was my understanding this was why a lot of people were going after the rifled Rossi Circuit Judge as it came with a 18.5" barrel, and a stock.

[ke6guj]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there also been some mention that not only would the judge/governor be considered a short barreled shotgun but also a shotgun with a relolving cylinder?
.

IMO, No.

even though it meets CA's definition of an SBS, it does not meet the definition of a shotgun (designed to be fired from the shoulder with a smoothbore). since it isn't a shotgun, it can't be a "shotgun with a revolving cylinder" and can't be an AW.

[Swagman00]

IMO, No.

even though it meets CA's definition of an SBS, it does not meet the definition of a shotgun (designed to be fired from the shoulder with a smoothbore). since it isn't a shotgun, it can't be a "shotgun with a revolving cylinder" and can't be an AW.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rifling of the bore also has something to do with it.

After reading this it apparently isn't by federal law, but by California law it is.

http://www.calgunlaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Judging-the-Judges-Illegal-Firearms-in-California.pdf

[Artema]

California has them categorized as DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE. That is the reason it is illegal, not because of the other things being mentioned. I almost convinced myself to get a Governor when I moved, but realized that .45 Colt is not even that great a round. I'd rather get a .44 or even .357 Magnum.

[omgwtfbbq]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rifling of the bore also has something to do with it.

After reading this it apparently isn't by federal law, but by California law it is.

http://www.calgunlaws.com/wp-content...California.pdf

The rifling question is what I had informed my original post on. It was my understanding, and it appears others agree, that guns like the Circuit judge would be considered shotguns with revolving cylinders IF they are smoothbore.


The Rossi Circuit Judge models capable of firing shotgun shells are legal because of having a rifled barrel, making them a rifle with a revolving cylinder, not a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

I was getting confused by the rifling issue when really it doesn't matter, because the judge and governor are still considered SBSs.

[Capybara]

Does anyone know of any Californian who has gone the AOW/FWD Grip route to legally obtain a Judge here? I might be interested in doing this since I already have a trust, an AOW and a dealer who might be willing, just want to know if anyone has actually done it here. I wouldn't mind waiting 9 months. Also, what about the ATF E-File system, would that possibly be a way to speed up the process to 2-4 months?

[Quiet]

The rifling question is what I had informed my original post on. It was my understanding, and it appears others agree, that guns like the Circuit judge would be considered shotguns with revolving cylinders IF they are smoothbore.


The Rossi Circuit Judge models capable of firing shotgun shells are legal because of having a rifled barrel, making them a rifle with a revolving cylinder, not a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

I was getting confused by the rifling issue when really it doesn't matter, because the judge and governor are still considered SBSs.

Under CA laws, in order to be considered a shotgun, the firearm needs a smoothbore barrel.
Last year, the CA legislature passed a bill that would have changed the law to include rifled barrels, but Governor Brown veto'd that bill.

Under CA laws, a SBS can have both a smoothbore barrel and a rifled barrel. In addition, a firearm that is not classified as a shotgun can be classified as a SBS.