open carry. what's the point.

[Matt C]

Didn't that happen to the Albertson's right next to UC Irvine?

Indeed. At least 20 people watched the last two killings and no one was able to intervene.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/06/30/supermarket.killings.ap/index.html

[Bird of Fire]

Some gun owners don't see the point of owning anything other than a 22LR.
Some don't see the need for a semi automatic rifle.
Some don't see the need for 30 round magazines and feel that 10 rounds is more than adequate.

I love how nobody has a problem with it unless they personally disagree with it. You should be fighting for the rights of all gun owners, not just the ones you agree with on a personal level. You don't like it? Don't do it. But don't question, undermine, or attempt to take away the choices of those that do.

[Rob454]

IF I were to OC i would do it to protect me and my family not the joe average public. Its not my job to be the protector of humankind. besides youll probably get sued by the very people you were trying to save. If a sitiation arose like you described yeah i guess i would have to do something about it but IF I could take my family and retreat I rather make sure my family is safe THEN go back and help i figure since my family would have a hard time surviving in todays world without me I much rather look out for me and mine than anyone else. Thats not to say i wouldnt help its my family comes first. if its a split second choice then Ill tear your throat out with my teeth if i had to

[Greg-Dawg]

Once you understand what this picture means...

...that's your point.

[M I K]

OK guys, Here is the bottom line.
OC is an individual personal choice. The advantage one has through the element of surprise comes into question, but I will fight to the death for your right to choose.

Semper Paratus

[fleegman]

I remember thinking that without a firearm handy, this guy is completely free to slice and dice his way through anyone. This is a darn good example, and I'm sure just about anyone would draw and stop this cat had they been carrying. OC or CC wouldn't have mattered.

This brings up a consequence of impossible-to-obtain CCW's. Many otherwise law-abiding people carry loaded and concealed unlawfully because they are unable to do so lawfully. They do so for personal protection. In the supermarket scenario, these people will at least hesitate, if not actually refuse to intervene to save others lest they be revealed for their unlawful carry, thus innocent people will be injured or killed, all in the name of making society safer. But that's acceptable losses to the legislature.

[guns_and_labs]

Then they should try to ban it. If it is a right, then you are entitled to exercise it at your will. Not the will of others. I could care less if someone wanted to open carry.

Respectfully, I think you missed my point. They don't want to ban it, but they also don't feel the need to OC -- they don't question their right to do it, just whether they want to do it. They don't feel the need to exercise their rights -- they just know they have them. They choose to CC in town rather than OC. And they almost all CC.

When someone OCs, they assume the guy just forgot when he came back from the field or, lately, that it must be one of those Californians that lost all their rights and has to come to Montana to publicly exercise them and prove to themselves that they have rights.

Someone said earlier that the point is to de-stigmatize firearms by carrying them openly in under normal circumstances. OK, I'm fine with that. Probably a good goal, and a worthy social/political statement. But it only works that way in an area where firearms are stigmatized.

But what about in states and communities where firearms are not stigmatized? Where they take the right for granted, but choose to dress a certain way? You have a right to belch at the dinner table at a restaurant, but do you need to exercise it at the expense of the feelings of those around you? [And that's how trivial they think it is.]

I really don't want to pick on any member here, because I think we share similar values and goals, but for an urban Californian -- generally without the practical ability to OC without stigma and law enforcement getting in the way -- to say that he OCs in other states "because it's my right", is perceived by the locals of that state not as a social or political warrior, just as a misfit who doesn't know he has a right without exercising it at the expense of local taste.

I'm not saying you can't do it, or shouldn't do it, just don't fool yourself as to what message is being sent or received to those around you while in the free states.

As one of my neighbors up north said to me, "Why should I believe you're concerned with your RIGHTS? You let them pass all those laws, and you still live there. They can't be THAT important to you." He doesn't dislike me for it, he just doesn't understand.

[Riodog]

Well first off CCW is illegal (at least where I live nobody is getting a permit).

So imagine this scenario;

You are open carrying, I'll use your example of the grocery store. You are picking out a nice porterhouse in the meat department when you hear screaming from the front of the store. You run to the front and see a strangely dressed, large man with a large Japanese style sword hacking away at any employee he can find. (let's say that he is a former grocery bagger at the store, now fired, who has mental problems, of course all you know is the some nutcase is attacking people with a sword.) There is one obviously dead person the floor and he has two other employees cornered.

With an OC piece you could probably save them, unarmed you probably could not.



Yes. In fact I would probably do everything I could to save them even unarmed.

Yeah BWO, While I realize you're the fair-haired-boy of this website you know nothing of what you speak. Carrying an unloaded weapon into that store would have gotten you sliced and diced just as it did the others. That person was not rational and you could have pointed a bazooka at him and guess what? You'd be chopped liver. Even had the MGR been allowed to arm himself (of which there are NONE) not much would have changed as in that short period of time and with everyone spread out nobody was sure what the situation was anyway. So tell us all just what you would have done with A. an unloaded gun. B. even if you had 1 Barney Fife Bullet who would you have shot?
Open Carry in this state is a joke perpetrated by people that just didn't get enough attention as children.

If anyone had been carrying concealed illegally and proceeded to entervene, not a charge would have been levied. Providing they shot the correct person.
Rio

[Noah]

LOL....well it seems the mods thought there was too much skin showing in the pic...you did miss out.

Take care,Stan

Thanks, Now my curiosity is even higher.

who cares about the OC discussion, I want to see this darn pic.

[Matt C]

Well, let's see now...

Carrying an unloaded weapon into that store would have gotten you sliced and diced just as it did the others. That person was not rational and you could have pointed a bazooka at him and guess what? You'd be chopped liver.

Well, I guess if he was related to Superman, or if I was unable to a hit grapefruit sized target at 15 yards, or I did not have any ammo on my person that might be true. There is, however, no reason to assume any of that.

The fact is unloaded OC with a loaded magazine IS legal, and it only takes a moment to drop an empty mag and pop a loaded one in. At that point I would be willing to do more than simply "point" the gun at the sword wielding killer, and I find it a highly unlikely scenario that I would at that point become "chopped liver".

Even had the MGR been allowed to arm himself (of which there are NONE) not much would have changed as in that short period of time and with everyone spread out nobody was sure what the situation was anyway.

Managers being armed or unarmed is outside the scope of this discussion. As far as being unable to determine what the situation was, a strangely dressed man with a bloody sword lunging at people with one diced body already on the floor, well, if you can't figure that out you should not have a gun I agree.

So tell us all just what you would have done with A. an unloaded gun. B. even if you had 1 Barney Fife Bullet who would you have shot?

A. Loaded the gun and fired at the threat until it ceased to be a threat.

B. Why do I only get one bullet again? I don't even get the casing and powder? Whatever, assuming it's a live round I would fire my one bullet at the subject's head, probably moving as close as possible and getting the threat's attention on me as to make my shot easier. This is a pointless question though, as I would be very foolish to only have one round.

Open Carry in this state is a joke perpetrated by people that just didn't get enough attention as children.

Trolling on this forum is a joke perpetrated by people that just didn't get enough attention as children.

If anyone had been carrying concealed illegally and proceeded to entervene, not a charge would have been levied. Providing they shot the correct person.
Rio

You must be a psychic, or live in a very different area than I do.

ETA: Oh yeah and my hair is is more of a dark brown...

[BigKevLA]

I must be doing it wrong then.

I would say about 70% of the time, my sidearm is not generally observed or the focus of attention, even though it is plain view. The other 30% of the time it is observed but assumed to be authorized or otherwise legal.

So, in order to do it right, I could do a neon pink Duracoat or a nice glittery handlebar tassle from a girl's bicycle attached to the retention lanyard. Or both? Flashing LEDs would be a nice touch too.

Most people would assume that you are a cop if you have a gun on your hip. But I think of quite a few places that it could become an issue when asked if you are a LEO.

[hooookup]

Riodog, you are ill informed if you think those of us who want to OC are doing it because we didn't get enough attention as a child...
I am unable to obtain a CCW where I live because the sheriff is a delusional moron. I carry $20,000 + worth of photography equipment with me on a daily basis as a part of my job. Sometimes, I have to go into seedy neighborhoods to cover a story. Unfortunately, the sheriff in the county where I reside, doesn't see that as a valid excuse for me to be issued a CCW.

[ojisan]

Thanks, Now my curiosity is even higher.
who cares about the OC discussion, I want to see this darn pic.

Trust me...I saw it, you don't want to see it! Horrible, just horrible it was!

[tenpercentfirearms]

I'm not saying you can't do it, or shouldn't do it, just don't fool yourself as to what message is being sent or received to those around you while in the free states.

As one of my neighbors up north said to me, "Why should I believe you're concerned with your RIGHTS? You let them pass all those laws, and you still live there. They can't be THAT important to you." He doesn't dislike me for it, he just doesn't understand.

I think the reasons to OC out of state would be self-protection. Since everyone likes guns and has no problem with guns, then they shouldn't care that you have a gun on your hip. If they do, they have the issue.

The other thing is why do I care what other people think about me? Especially people who see me open carrying in Free America? What are they going to do? Pass laws to stop out of state residents from open carrying?

Open carry shouldn't be just about making a statement, it should be about self defense. Seriously, what kind of pansy, hyper-sensitive people out of state would get upset over seeing a person with a gun on their belt? The kind of people that have issues if you ask me. If they get bent out of shape because a tourist wants to provide themselves with protection, while the resident has their pistol under their shirt, they are the ones with the issues.

You could respond that we shouldn't flaunt it in their face? Flaunt what? You have a pistol on your belt. What is the big deal? If someone is acting stupid with a gun on their belt, then they should be dealt with in an appropriate manner.

I think you are picking one little aspect of open carry out of the state to complain about when it really isn't an issue or shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah BWO, While I realize you're the fair-haired-boy of this website you know nothing of what you speak. Carrying an unloaded weapon into that store would have gotten you sliced and diced just as it did the others. That person was not rational and you could have pointed a bazooka at him and guess what? You'd be chopped liver. Even had the MGR been allowed to arm himself (of which there are NONE) not much would have changed as in that short period of time and with everyone spread out nobody was sure what the situation was anyway. So tell us all just what you would have done with A. an unloaded gun. B. even if you had 1 Barney Fife Bullet who would you have shot?
Open Carry in this state is a joke perpetrated by people that just didn't get enough attention as children.

If anyone had been carrying concealed illegally and proceeded to entervene, not a charge would have been levied. Providing they shot the correct person.
Rio

LOL. You missed where OC is also accompanied by loaded magazines in a mag pouch also on the belt didn't you? You might want to apologize for your ignorance.

[Army]

Wes, Becky, and Dean...yes, I was carrying unloaded in the open, which is the California legal way (CalPC 12025-12031). You likely noticed the two magazines filled with Peter Pi's finest 168's (now Remington Gold Dots). I'm glad you have no problem with law abiding citizens wearing firearms in your store, all the more reason to make the drive down there in the future to do more business with you. (BTW, the Spikes dedicated .22 upper is a freakin' tack driver. Wow! Popping the 125yd 3" dinger is almost childs play. Little bits and pieces of clay birds at all distances, are now dust once again )

OpenCarry.org, in the California forum, has many tales and blogs of California citizens exercising their right to be armed (I'm Army there too, you can read my blog referring going to Taft). You naysayers that believe no weapon at all is preferable to a quickly loaded gun, really need to re-evaluate the worth of your life and that of your families.