relinquish lowers only?

[navin r]

Sorry if this has already been answered, I couldn't find it.
I've never had a TRO filed against me nor have I ever had any guns confiscated by any authorities, but my question is if a person had to give up their guns due to a TRO or whatever, and that person had AR type rifles, could that person relinquish the lowers only? In other words take their rifles apart and keep everything except giving up the bare lowers?
The lower is the official "gun", the rest can all be bought online or wherever, could a person keep everything but the lowers?
Thanks for any answer.

[RandyD]

I am an attorney and frequently represent people in court regarding restraining orders. I recall one case, where a client disassembled his firearms and only turned in the receivers to a law enforcement agency, and he maintained possession of the remaining firearm's parts. In that case, the law enforcement agency did not raise an issue in court that what the restrained person did was improper, and I am unaware of any case law that requires a restrained person turn over all parts of a firearm.

The process requires a restrained person to turn over all firearms to a law enforcement agency or to sell the firearms to a licensed FFL. In both cases the restrained person would have paperwork proving that he either sold or turned over the firearms. The next step is a restrained person must inform the court that he has complied with the temporary order that he turned over or sold all of his firearms. This requirement is accomplished by checking boxes on a Judicial Council Form that is filed with the court.

In my opinion, I believe that turning in a firearm's receiver is compliance with the statute, but keep in mind a court could find that such minimal compliance is not full compliance.

[BumBum]

I am an attorney who practices in family law as well and agree with RandyD. California law defines firearms in certain statutes, but there is no general definition. The only thing to keep in mind that one subject to a restraining order is prohibited from possessing ammunition as well. But there is no mention about gun parts. In fact, the only laws regarding "parts" of which I am aware are certain ones subject to the NFA, such as machine gun parts.

Nonetheless, I would probably still advise a client to relinquish the full, functioning firearm. It may never get noticed by the court, and would probably only come up as an issue if the moving party made a stink about it. However, at a time where you are trying to prove that you are not a bad guy, I don't think it's worth the risk to come across as a jerk by playing such games (which is how the court would see it).

[navin r]

Thank you very much gentlemen; your answers are much appreciated.

[fighter4cage]

(AR15 and like) I would give all the (parts) away to family and friends and turn in ONLY the "Firearm" My STRIPPED lower.
Heck, if you thought you should turn in more, you might as well turn in your Bi-pod, Sling, Optics, bullets, Mags and why not your Binoculars?

[09rubicon]

(AR15 and like) I would give all the (parts) away to family and friends and turn in ONLY the "Firearm" My STRIPPED lower.
Heck, if you thought you should turn in more, you might as well turn in your Bi-pod, Sling, Optics, bullets, Mags and why not your Binoculars?

Thats were the court would probably call you for non-compliance. Now if you eloquently expressed that there was a large monetary value with many of these firearms and that you were trying to recover some of that value by selling the parts not considered a firearm while still complying with the court order you may have a chance.

[RandyD]

I am an attorney who practices in family law as well and agree with RandyD. California law defines firearms in certain statutes, but there is no general definition. The only thing to keep in mind that one subject to a restraining order is prohibited from possessing ammunition as well. But there is no mention about gun parts. In fact, the only laws regarding "parts" of which I am aware are certain ones subject to the NFA, such as machine gun parts.

Nonetheless, I would probably still advise a client to relinquish the full, functioning firearm. It may never get noticed by the court, and would probably only come up as an issue if the moving party made a stink about it. However, at a time where you are trying to prove that you are not a bad guy, I don't think it's worth the risk to come across as a jerk by playing such games (which is how the court would see it).

I agree. Excellent advice.

[fighter4cage]

Thats were the court would probably call you for non-compliance. Now if you eloquently expressed that there was a large monetary value with many of these firearms and that you were trying to recover some of that value by selling the parts not considered a firearm while still complying with the court order you may have a chance.

I only own "one" stripped AR15 lower, no other guns.... So, if I was ordered to turn in my Firearm
I would have to wait and do a complete build before I could turn it in? otherwise face non compliant charge? .... I am laughing while typing......

[BumBum]

(AR15 and like) I would give all the (parts) away to family and friends and turn in ONLY the "Firearm" My STRIPPED lower.
Heck, if you thought you should turn in more, you might as well turn in your Bi-pod, Sling, Optics, bullets, Mags and why not your Binoculars?

I get your point, but no one is arguing that you need to turn in accessories that are not integral to the function of the firearm (whereas upper receiver, stock, bolt, barrel, etc. - all of these are integral to function). However, you are wrong by lumping in bullets - you expressly cannot have ammunition according to the statute.

[BumBum]

I only own "one" stripped AR15 lower, no other guns.... So, if I was ordered to turn in my Firearm
I would have to wait and do a complete build before I could turn it in? otherwise face non compliant charge? .... I am laughing while typing......

Of course that's not true. The question was whether you could take the complete firearm apart. If all you have is a lower receiver, then there won't be any subsequent questions raised about compliance (unless someone was lying about what you have). Like I said earlier, it would probably only come up as an issue if the moving party made a stink about it.

[Librarian]

Playing with inclusions here...

The prohibition from possessing firearms is PC 29825.

That's fully Penal Code, Part 6, Title 4, Division 9, Chapter 2, Section 29825. The full specification is important.

And then we have PC 30305

(a) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a
firearm under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3
(commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title, or
Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, shall
own, possess, or have under custody or control, any ammunition or
reloaded ammunition.
(2) A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment
in a county jail not to exceed one year or in the state prison, by a
fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the
fine and imprisonment.

and, for purposes of 30305, "ammunition" is defined at 16150

(a) As used in Section 30300, “ammunition” means handgun ammunition as defined in Section 16650.

(b) As used in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, “ammunition” includes, but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.

So, it looks like the non-firearm parts of a weapon might be retained, but it appears that TRO restrainees must also hand off "any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence."

Yikes.

[navin r]

Thanks guys you guys are awesome. Note to self: don't get any TRO's against you.

[SMarquez]

I have my sales receipt for a stripped Mega lower so if I wanted to be a turd, I might only turn that in. Now, what I have seen in the last 6 weeks with a niece and her TRO against her future ex, it isn't smart to mess with the court.

[BigPimping]

Best advice, avoid women.....aquire currency.

[postal]

Best advice, avoid women.....aquire currency.

Says a "Pimp!"

Good info everyone.