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Exercising my First Amendment Right: Dear ATF

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  • allgirlswguns
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2013
    • 12

    Exercising my First Amendment Right: Dear ATF

    Where to start.........
    To the ATF (with all due respect): I hereby exercise my first amendment right to freedom of speech: In my opinion the right to build our own firearm emanates from the 2nd Amendment. Neither the Second Amendment nor the right to freedom of association comes from some permission from your organization. We realize that you are scared to death that this "80%" thing has become so popular that your organization is fighting for it's own relevance. Again, with all due respect, tough ****. With the democratization of manufacturing, where more and more people are able to "manufacture" or complete more complex things like firearms themselves through the widespread availability of computer aided technology like "CNC's" and 3D printers, your "control" organization and other regulatory agencies like yours are going to become obsolete......despite your best draconian efforts. The people have spoken.

    To be sure you have force on your side.....but be advised , it is transitory. This is the US and we don't have Secret Police. These "Cease and Desist" actions where you claim that your demands not be published are a violation of the 1st Amendment. If you have a legal opinion you are required to publish it BEFORE you attempt to deny people their Constitutional and civil rights. Nowhere in the regulations mentioning self building a firearm does it say what level of tools can or cannot be used, nor does it define some special location where this right can be exercised. Your unpublished "opinion" does not qualify as law.

    Just like recording industry technology has come full circle and is now in the hands of the people, so too will the ability to manufacture everything from custom toilets that defy so-called "Low flush Congress toilets" to firearms to practically anything else that people want. And these will be "manufacturable" in their own homes and will be traded amongst the worlds population without government ability to control them. Get used to it.
    The belief that you share with almost all other government organizations ....that so-called liberal democracies run by cleptocrats, control freaks and their fascist business comrades are the final evolution of governance on this planet is GROSSLY inaccurate.

    The loss of control over firearms is a drop in the bucket compared to all the tax revenue that every branch of leeching government is going to lose when half of the items that people purchase will be "manufacturable" , transferable and customizable by them in the comfort of their own homes.

    Finally, amongst all the other arguments listed on this thread against your acts of actual tyranny, you stand to lose solely on the grounds that you are DISENFRANCHISING THE POOR . By inferring that only a person who currently has the expensive equipment or has the disposable income necessary to purchase said equipment can exercise their right is one of the most losable arguments we can imagine. It defy s common sense, common law, commercial law and completely lacks any flavor of American jurisprudence to date. In fact has not your President and his minions at your sister organization the DOJ sued several states for their attempt at so-called "voter ID" laws.....primarily arguing that these laws "DISENFRANCHISE THE POOR"!?
    Your time is coming to an end. It is truly inevitable.

    PS To all those saying that so-called "build parties" (and I agree that for uncomfortable but all too real political reasons they shouldn't be called "parties") done by businesses are just some greedy money venture.....bah humbug. To my knowledge the US is still a somewhat free market. By the same hater logic Coca-Cola "takes advantage" (otherwise known as "capitalizing") on people not knowing how or not wanting to have to "build" the ingredients of their soft drink. So what? People want their product and some are hooked on it. Big deal.
    Last edited by allgirlswguns; 10-29-2013, 8:37 PM. Reason: Paragraph breaks sometimes help.
  • #2
    indetrucks
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2006
    • 1380

    I really wanted to read that too

    Comment

    • #3
      jukyu-juichi
      Member
      • Sep 2013
      • 106

      Originally posted by allgirlswguns
      These "Cease and Desist" actions where you claim that your demands not be published are a violation of the 1st Amendment.
      Where has the BATFE demanded not to have their cease and desist letter published?

      Please explain how they are violating our 1st ammendment rights?

      If anything, it seems the BATFE is holding people TO their rights, rather than violating their rights.

      Please elaborate.

      Comment

      • #4
        allgirlswguns
        Junior Member
        • Oct 2013
        • 12

        Originally posted by indetrucks
        I really wanted to read that too
        Here you go. I finally found someone who could supply the link:

        Comment

        • #5
          nick
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
          CGN Contributor
          • Aug 2008
          • 19151

          Originally posted by jukyu-juichi
          Where has the BATFE demanded not to have their cease and desist letter published?

          Please explain how they are violating our 1st ammendment rights?

          If anything, it seems the BATFE is holding people TO their rights, rather than violating their rights.

          Please elaborate.
          I'm having a hard time to wrap my mind around the bolded statement. How does one hold people TO their rights? Forcing them to exercise their rights, or what?
          DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated.

          DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292
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          Comment

          • #6
            jukyu-juichi
            Member
            • Sep 2013
            • 106

            Originally posted by nick
            I'm having a hard time to wrap my mind around the bolded statement. How does one hold people TO their rights? Forcing them to exercise their rights, or what?
            Because it has always been illegal to manufacture a firearm for personal use in the manor and the way the "build parties", "shop rental", "machine rental", et al, function. This is an individual right, period.

            This issue will show large contingencies on both sides.

            I predict GCA68 will be the center of the cases if/when they go to court.

            We are not sure any will go to court yet, although it is rumored today that someone was served and let go on-site after confiscating his goods. That could be a big loss financially to someone.

            Comment

            • #7
              allgirlswguns
              Junior Member
              • Oct 2013
              • 12

              Originally posted by nick
              I'm having a hard time to wrap my mind around the bolded statement. How does one hold people TO their rights? Forcing them to exercise their rights, or what?
              Exactly!

              Comment

              • #8
                -hanko
                CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                CGN Contributor
                • Jul 2002
                • 14174

                Critical reading skills lacking...

                ...go back to the batfe's letter.

                Read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.

                NO WHERE does it say anything about an individual building his/her own weapon.

                What it does say is that if you as an individual or business profits from building weapons, they require a manufacturer's ffl.

                Further, if they're not shipping finished lowers to a licensee for sale, they are required to get a license to sell the finished lowers under federal law.

                Federal law also requires that relevant state laws be observed...dros, background check, etc.

                Individuals building their own weapons in their own shops for their own use are not being popped, to my knowledge.

                No difference in a build party where you bring in metal and leave with a finished firearm (or lower, in this case) after paying for it, v. buying a weapon from a private party without an ffl as intermediary.

                "DISENFRANCHISING THE POOR" looks like you're in the FSA. By your "logic", I should get government assistance if I'd prefer a LaRue but can only afford a Del-Ton. Welcome to the California welfare state.

                You may want to fix your "language" a bit before you send your letter.
                Last edited by -hanko; 10-30-2013, 8:45 AM.
                True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life.

                Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!!

                Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain

                A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran

                Comment

                • #9
                  Jason_2111
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2010
                  • 3831

                  The ATF doesn't care if you and a buddy want to use his Bridgeport mill to finish a few lowers in his garage.
                  The ATF DOES care if you want to have a huge line of people go into your business and just push a button to create a firearm.

                  At least, that's how it's been explained to me.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    SDgarrick
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2008
                    • 1192

                    what's the difference between renting time on a CNC, mill or other future technology (which will continue to make it easier) and selling a CNC, mill or other future technology for that very purpose? Both involve profit. Even with guidance, it's still the user doing the ''work"

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      USMCM16A2
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2006
                      • 4941

                      ATF Bull****.

                      Dear AresArmor,


                      The letter says that IF you are assisting and having folks pay you for this service then do 2 things. Stop assisting, and do not charge for your services. Indepedent contractor, rents out time slots for the owners of these lowers to finish them up. The ATF cannot determine what a citizen can do with their lower. Fast and Furious is how we should apporach this issues..................A2

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        golfish
                        I need a LIFE!!
                        • Mar 2013
                        • 10111

                        Originally posted by Jason_2111
                        The ATF doesn't care if you and a buddy want to use his Bridgeport mill to finish a few lowers in his garage.
                        The ATF DOES care if you want to have a huge line of people go into your business and just push a button to create a firearm.

                        At least, that's how it's been explained to me.
                        You forgot the money thing...They know they can't get any money from the mill in the garage but they can from the CNC rental.
                        It takes a lot of balls to play golf the way I do.
                        Happiness is a warm gun.

                        MLC, First 3

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          SJgunguy24
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • May 2008
                          • 14849

                          It's all about the money and control, the BATFE wants their licensing fee's, excise taxes, and to know how many are being made/sold.
                          There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
                          The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
                          The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
                          The others, well......they just never learn.

                          "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!"
                          Patrick Henry.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            sfhondapilot
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2011
                            • 665

                            Originally posted by SJgunguy24
                            It's all about the money and control, the BATFE wants their licensing fee's, excise taxes, and to know how many are being made/sold.
                            and who the "makers" are.
                            David

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              jukyu-juichi
                              Member
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 106

                              Originally posted by allgirlswguns
                              These "Cease and Desist" actions where you claim that your demands not be published are a violation of the 1st Amendment.
                              Again, where has the BATFE demanded that nobody publish their cease and desist letter?

                              You never answered and in fact avoided this question. It would appear that you are just trolling with hot air.

                              Comment

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