Settle an arguement

[Diabolus]

Individual has little to no experience with guns. I've seen the person shoot a pistol and it's not good, shaky and timid - I'm sure with practice they would get better. He does not know how to clean firearms. I recommended a revolver for sheer simplicity which he now owns.

The debate is over a shotgun. What would be the more appropriate choice: Benelli M4 or a Remington 870P.

This would be used as a home defense weapon.

[Synergy]

I vote for the 870 (I own one) They are simple, reliable and affordable. What else could you ask for.

[Shane916]

Both good choices.

For first gun though he should get a basic 870 and learn from that.

Simple, very popular, parts and accessories are easily obtainable and relatively inexpensive.

Once he masters it then I'd recommend stepping up to a higher end 870 or going to the M4.

[Blue]

Sounds like a buddy of mine.

[jamesob]

a simple shotgun would be a double barrel.

[Nate Haler]

choose whatever the shooter uses most proficiently

Individual has little to no experience with guns. I've seen the person shoot a pistol and it's not good, shaky and timid - I'm sure with practice they would get better. He does not know how to clean firearms. I recommended a revolver for sheer simplicity which he now owns.

The debate is over a shotgun. What would be the more appropriate choice: Benelli M4 or a Remington 870P.

This would be used as a home defense weapon.

If the person won't practice, then it matters little what he he chooses. Performance will be mediocre to miserable. Firearms proficiency is a skill, and like any skill requires proper repetition, until it is instinctive.

If the person will practice, then he should first try out a couple/three models to see what fits the best. If he won't practice, then he'd probably be better off with a baseball bat. It's not like the movies. There's recoil, noise, and adrenaline.

As to the virtues of a shotgun for all-around shooting, the 870 is a strong contender. Without practice, the virtues of any gun are hugely mitigated.

[drclark]

870 is probably the better choice:

pump action is simpler to operate than a semi auto
pump action can go longer without cleaning
pump action is much easier to clean than semi auto
pump action can operate with reduced recoil and other specialty loads
pump action can double as a bird or clay gun with the addition of a longer barrel

pump action will be much cheaper than benelli M4 - for basic home defense, there is no need to trick it out will all the tactical accessories. Just get a basic 870 express with 18" barrel. Big 5 usually sells a security combo (mossberg 500) that comes with both an 18" and 28" tubes.

Just make he gets a decent recoil pad.

drc

[wilit]

My buddy just got rid of his Benelli M1 and bought an 870P. His M1 just wouldn't run low base loads reliably. Just kept short stroking all the time.

Now depending on which school of thought you come from as far as HD loads go, it might not be a problem since you wouldn't use a target style shell. But for him, it was a deal breaker.

[heycorey]

Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong at exactly the wrong time; pump action for self-defense.

And I'd suggest a Mossberg 590; holds more rounds ... sounds like your friend might miss a few times.

[maxicon]

pump action is simpler to operate than a semi auto

Umm...

Pump - Rack in first round, pull trigger, rack in next round, repeat as necessary unless you short-stroke one due to lack of practice.

Semi-auto - Rack in first round, pull trigger, repeat as necessary.

A semi-auto can be just as reliable as any pump, but either one takes practice with the planned loads to ensure reliability, so there's no difference there.

A semi's far simpler to operate, though.

[Paul]

Pump action - without a doubt.

[ocbruin]

Is the assertion that this person is unpracticed and is not going to practice, unskilled at maintenance and unwilling to learn? If these are the attributes, I agree with the baseball bat. (Even then, he should take a few test swings once in a while).

Firearms, as we all know, require practice and knowledge. The best weapon for an individual is the best weapon for that individual -- something that can only be determined through practice, testing, and honest self-evaluation.

What will this person find comfortable? Accurate? Dependable? That is what he should go with.

What should he do? Return the revolver, wait on the shotgun, and get a lot more personal experience with firearms before making a decision and purchase.

[jakjakman]

This person definitely needs a Benelli M4. While the 870 may seem like the logical choice, the Benelli M4 actually has significantly lower recoil than the 870 due to being gas operated. I'm not convinced by those who argue that that the 870 is easier to operate than the M4. When you get down to it, both of them are relatively simple to shoot and clean. If you can drive a car, you can operate either of these shotguns. Have that person get a Benelli M4.

[Crusader]

I've always been a huge fan of both Benelli and Remington shotguns. I'd usually recommend an 870 for home defense, but in all honesty, what is easier for a new shooter than simply pulling the trigger repeatedly?

I'd say that if he has the money, he should get an M2 or M4

[emc002]

My buddy just got rid of his Benelli M1 and bought an 870P. His M1 just wouldn't run low base loads reliably. Just kept short stroking all the time.

I took a Tactical Shotgun class at Weapons Training School in Sonora and three people in the class brought semi-autos.
None of them functioned well for the class, none would cycle target #7 or #8 loads at all, and after the class it became clear that for tactical reloads the semi-auto was at a SEVERE disadvantage.
They finally all ran OK after getting some 00 buck into them.

But it did help me make the decision that I don't want or need a semi-auto shotgun. YRMV.

ETA: Everyone else in the class had pumps (Mossberg 500, 590, Remington 870 and one Winchester) all functioned perfectly for about 600 rounds.
Only two of us had Knoxx Stocks and only two of us weren't sore!