SBR question (to those out of CA folks who can have them, or those in CA who know)

[peterabbits]

So, I've been daydreaming about the day I can finally get rid of the chains CA has on me again, and i had a thought. I already had plans of taking an AR pistol and SBRing it so I could put a stock on it, when I started thinking about an SBR in a different caliber, and a question formed that I'm hoping someone can answer. Here goes.

I know when you get approved for the tax stamp, you have to put some specific engraving on the item in question. What I don't know is if you can have one AR lower that you can use for multiple caliber uppers, both (all) of which would create an SBR when used? Or does each SBR need to have a unique lower? On the one hand, lowers can be marked multi-cal, but I believe SBR engravings have to be a bit more detailed?

Any information is appreciated.

[russ69]

You'll have one lower for each SBR upper. You can have as many 16 inch and longer barrels as you want.

[FourLoko]

wrong, one SBR registered lower and you can swap uppers all day long

[TheDigitalPicasso]

wrong, one SBR registered lower and you can swap uppers all day long

Exactly, once you register the Lower as an SBR and you get your tax stamp and get the name of your trust engraved you can put a 300 black out, 11.5" upper or a 5.56 11"5 upper or even a 12.5" if you like.

[russ69]

Exactly, once you register the Lower as an SBR and you get your tax stamp and get the name of your trust engraved you can put a 300 black out, 11.5" upper or a 5.56 11"5 upper or even a 12.5" if you like.

Constructive possession? I'm no expert obviously. In this state I would be concerned with that. Sorry didn't mean to spread the wrong info.

[beanz2]

Can a Californian manage to get a Federal SBR tax stamp? What if you have a California RAW?

[technique]

As far as the engraving goes, if it's your personally owned SBR, Name City and State are engraved

For a trust, Trust name (not sure if location is also required)

So for the next part of your question, on your Form1 you are asked for Caliber and Barrel length, as well as Over all length. As long as you aren't permanently altering that, as in your barrel length shows 10.3in on your approved Form1, but you sold that upper and don't have that configuration anymore- You don't have to notify the ATF. You can swap uppers and configuration at your leisure.

When you decide that you want to make a permanent change, you just notify, that's all.

My Original SBR was 11.5in. now it is a 9.5in, no hassle.

[technique]

This helps you most when transporting. BTW

Or when you encounter LE.

[surplus-addict]

Constructive possession? I'm no expert obviously. In this state I would be concerned with that. Sorry didn't mean to spread the wrong info.

Constructive intent would go out the window once you had a lower you could put the lowers on, be it an SBR'd lower or a pistol lower.

Now, owning a bunch of rifle lowers and not having rifle uppers to put on them, but you have the pistol uppers and no SBR/pistol lower?6 THAT wouldn't be good for you.

[audiophil2]

Why would you want to scratch up a lower? Why change the manufacturer name from a well known brand to Joe Bob Trust?
I can understand if you want to use the lower as a pistol while waiting for the stamp but if you are in no hurry just buy a factory SBR. In some cases a factory SBR is cheaper than a Title I gun. for example, when ar15s were selling for 2-3x more than msrp Colt, LWRC, etc sbr's were selling below retail.

Factory SBRs are easier to find and they will always state the factory name on the registration. Try selling a scratched SBR. They hold less value than title I guns.

Just my opinion.

[peterabbits]

First off, thanks for all the info guys, that made sense to me, but wanted to make sure.

Why would you want to scratch up a lower? Why change the manufacturer name from a well known brand to Joe Bob Trust?
I can understand if you want to use the lower as a pistol while waiting for the stamp but if you are in no hurry just buy a factory SBR. In some cases a factory SBR is cheaper than a Title I gun. for example, when ar15s were selling for 2-3x more than msrp Colt, LWRC, etc sbr's were selling below retail.

Factory SBRs are easier to find and they will always state the factory name on the registration. Try selling a scratched SBR. They hold less value than title I guns.

Just my opinion.

In my case, I currently have a pistol lower that I made from an 80% - currently no markings on it whatsoever. This is the lower that I will use for this once I get out of state. And I will use my current pistol upper as well, so the only thing to do to make it an SBR aside from the tax stamp and engraving is to put a different buffer tube on it and put a stock on it. Much cheaper than buying a factory SBR and there will be no scratched out engraving either. My hope was that I could acquire a second pistol upper in a different caliber and be able to use both of them on the same lower.

This actually brings up a different question, pertaining to transport: according to federal law, you can start as a pistol, build into a rifle, and go back again (lets not discuss CA law at this time); based on that premise, can you go from pistol, to tax stamped SBR back to pistol again? Or would the engraving cause you problems at this point (transporting as a pistol)?

[audiophil2]

First off, thanks for all the info guys, that made sense to me, but wanted to make sure.



In my case, I currently have a pistol lower that I made from an 80% - currently no markings on it whatsoever. This is the lower that I will use for this once I get out of state. And I will use my current pistol upper as well, so the only thing to do to make it an SBR aside from the tax stamp and engraving is to put a different buffer tube on it and put a stock on it. Much cheaper than buying a factory SBR and there will be no scratched out engraving either. My hope was that I could acquire a second pistol upper in a different caliber and be able to use both of them on the same lower.

This actually brings up a different question, pertaining to transport: according to federal law, you can start as a pistol, build into a rifle, and go back again (lets not discuss CA law at this time); based on that premise, can you go from pistol, to tax stamped SBR back to pistol again? Or would the engraving cause you problems at this point (transporting as a pistol)?

Now you really are making things difficult for yourself. The whole point of an 80% build is to have no record. Why not just install one of those new pistol braces for $140 and be done? You will have a sub 30" unregistered .223. Check out recoil magazine. They review the brace. When I get customers wanting an SBR I show them my sub $1200 SIG M400 pistol that they can take home immediately and they go into shock.

As far as the new question, carry your paperwork and you will be fine. If you unregister it and keep it as a pistol then it is now a pistol. Only difference is it was now manufactured by Joe Bob's trust and not a Colt or 80% or anything else. Local PD won't know what you have and either let you go or keep it until completing an investigation. Investigations involve work so don't expect that route unless you are suspicious. If the cops do want to make an issue then ATF gets involved and now it will take months. At that point I bet you will be wishing you just bought the pistol brace.

If you will be in a gun friendly state no one will care what you have unless you are doing something really stupid. I had Sheriff Joe's helicopter watching us 2 from miles out back in September during a night shoot. We had NVG and were using IR lasers and tracers running full auto guns. Not one cop rolled up to us. A registered SBR is a non-issue in most states.

[CSACANNONEER]

Can a Californian manage to get a Federal SBR tax stamp? What if you have a California RAW?

Yes, California residents can legally buy and own C&R SBRs, C&R SBSs, DDs and many types of AOWs in California and in other states too.

There are a few Californians who can also legally buy and own machine guns and/or suppressors as well.

I don't see how a CA RAW would mean anything.

[surplus-addict]

I don't see how a CA RAW would mean anything.

I think what he's trying to get at is that if you could turn a RAW into an SBR.

If there was a C&R AR registered as an AW, maaaaaybe. But as of now? Nope.

[gigawatt]

The Department of Justice is proposing to amend the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act. The proposed regulations would (1) add a definition for the term "responsible person"; (2) require each responsible person of a corporation, trust or legal entity to complete a specified form, and to submit photographs and fingerprints; and (3) modify the requirements regarding the certificate of the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO).

http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=ATF-2013-0001