LA Sheriff's Dept. gets new S&W M&Ps

[Nick Justice]

I talked to my nephew yesterday. He's in the LA sheriff's academy. He told me that about two months ago, they were all issued Smith & Wesson M&Ps in 9mm for duty carry. Anyone else heard this?

He also told me that in his class (50 people), about 15 guns had to be returned or replaced for malfunctions during training over the last couple of months.

Can anyone corroborate, clarify, or deny?

15 out of 50 is not a good ratio. Hmmm...

[tal3nt]

I thought they carried 40s

[SkyStorm82]

I thought they carried 40s

40 isn't authorized in that department.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

The M&P 9mm has been in circulation with LASD for a few years. The vast majority of the pistols work fine. There were some issues with some a few years ago which apparently have been worked out. I have not been issued an M&P9mm but I got the full size and compact on my own dime and have been carrying both on/off duty for 3+ years. Absolutely dependable pistols. Just like the 92F's that preceded them.

The LASD firearms training unit gave the M&P their blessing, and every time I go to the range the training guys all seem to be carrying M&P's.

[SoCalEnthusiast]

Surprising, no? Have heard iffy things about the M&P's, quality over quantity...

[USM0083]

My agency went to M&P 45s last year. Good guns, but more maintenance intensive than a Glock.

Support from S&W is spotty. One issue that most aren't aware of is that the slide stop is a 5K round replacement part. One of the academies that use the range that we're at wasn't aware of that and were breaking their slide stops every other academy class.

[SMarquez]

Hard to imagine anyone running a gun harder than a training academy. I wonder what the round count is in some of those guns?

[9mmepiphany]

One issue that most aren't aware of is that the slide stop is a 5K round replacement part.

Which part of it fails?

Does the part that contacts the follower stop being pushed up?
Do one of the two thumb tabs snap off?
Does the finger that catches the slide get battered down?

It seems like an easy enough part to routinely replace and wouldn't affect the action parts

[Ron-Solo]

Hard to imagine anyone running a gun harder than a training academy. I wonder what the round count is in some of those guns?

Before LASD will even consider a firearm, they have to have multiple pistols go 15K rounds without failure, among other requirements.

The previous problem with the M&P was extractors that we're outsourced and out of spec. That problem was corrected a while back.

I have a personally owned M&P (I retired before they were issued) that has about 3,500 rounds thru it without a failure.

[USM0083]

Which part of it fails?

Does the part that contacts the follower stop being pushed up?
Do one of the two thumb tabs snap off?
Does the finger that catches the slide get battered down?

It seems like an easy enough part to routinely replace and wouldn't affect the action parts

The initial wear is where the slide stop engages the notch in the slide. My .45 has 2000+ rounds through it and the slide will drop if I so much as sneeze. You can actually tell how worn an M&P has through it by how easier it is the release the slide via the slide stop, OR how easy it is to "autoload" during a speed reload. S&W advocates sling shotting the slide, if it doesn't autoload.

The most common breakage is where the thumb tabs of the slide stop shear off. Being a stamped part, it definately must be replaced at the 5K mark.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179596

I'm my site armorer, so it's something I'm keeping an eye on.

I wonder if it's a materials issue, since it's designed as a slide stop, and not a slide release?

Being a stamped part, using it as a slide release could be accelerating wear. As a new part, the slide stop is REALLY hard to press down on to chamber a round.

Fortunately it takes about a minute to replace, and cost under $10.00.

The 5K round maintenance cycle consist of the slide stop lever and return spring, and the recoil spring and guide. Total cost is about $18.00.

Here is an article that suggest it is the "autoload" "feature" that is causing the wear.

http://www.guns.com/review/2011/11/19/how-it-breaks-smith-a-wesson-map-video/

[SoCalEnthusiast]

Thats a sign of a weak gun, I'm sorry.

[bruss01]

The initial wear is where the slide stop engages the notch in the slide. My .45 has 2000+ rounds through it and the slide will drop if I so much as sneeze. You can actually tell how worn an M&P has through it by how easier it is the release the slide via the slide stop, OR how easy it is to "autoload" during a speed reload. S&W advocates sling shotting the slide, if it doesn't autoload.

The most common breakage is where the thumb tabs of the slide stop shear off. Being a stamped part, it definately must be replaced at the 5K mark.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179596

I'm my site armorer, so it's something I'm keeping an eye on.

I wonder if it's a materials issue, since it's designed as a slide stop, and not a slide release?

Being a stamped part, using it as a slide release could be accelerating wear. As a new part, the slide stop is REALLY hard to press down on to chamber a round.

Fortunately it takes about a minute to replace, and cost under $10.00.

The 5K round maintenance cycle consist of the slide stop lever and return spring, and the recoil spring and guide. Total cost is about $18.00.

Here is an article that suggest it is the "autoload" "feature" that is causing the wear.
http://www.guns.com/review/2011/11/1...son-map-video/

"Autoload"? Isn't that actually a malfunction of the gun?

[USM0083]

"Autoload"? Isn't that actually a malfunction of the gun?

According to our S&W LE rep, who gave us our armorer class, it is a side effect of the design. Many polymer framed pistols will "autoload" or "auto forward" if you slam the mag straight in.

My M&P is broken in and I don't have to use very much force when inserting the mag to autoload. Part of that is the design and wear pattern of the slide stop.

The issue that I see in training are shooters that rely on slamming the mag in to autoload, and when it doesn't, they keep slamming the magazine, rather than sling shotting the slide.

[9mmepiphany]

The initial wear is where the slide stop engages the notch in the slide.
...You can actually tell how worn an M&P has through it by how easier it is the release the slide via the slide stop, OR how easy it is to "autoload" during a speed reload.
...The most common breakage is where the thumb tabs of the slide stop shear off.

Thanks for the detail, I'll keep an eye on the parts

I wonder if it's a materials issue, since it's designed as a slide stop, and not a slide release?

Being a stamped part, using it as a slide release could be accelerating wear. As a new part, the slide stop is REALLY hard to press down on to chamber a round.

Funny that you should mention that.

I first read about how hard it was on this forum and had to take my M&P9 out to confirm...as I had never used it to release the slide.

I wonder how much effect only using the slide stop to lock the slide to the rear has on the longevity of the part.

[9mmepiphany]

According to our S&W LE rep, who gave us our armorer class, it is a side effect of the design. Many polymer framed pistols will "autoload" or "auto forward" if you slam the mag straight in.

My M&P is broken in and I don't have to use very much force when inserting the mag to autoload. Part of that is the design and wear pattern of the slide stop.

The issue that I see in training are shooters that rely on slamming the mag in to autoload, and when it doesn't, they keep slamming the magazine, rather than sling shotting the slide.

My slide has been very consistent about releasing during speed reloads since it was new. I've been very pleasantly surprised by how reliable it has been in chambering the first round.

It is more common on polymer framed pistols than alloy framed ones as there is usually more vertical play in the frame and rails. I can usually get my 1911 to do it, but my SIGs just don't want to.

I've also seen the repeated slamming of the base of the mag by newer shooters...it is just like 1911 shooters who struggle with releasing the slide using the slide lock. That is one of the reasons that I advocate a quick overhand tug to release the slide...it may be a little slower, but it is more reliable