PPT: Getting stuck with a cracked frame, and forum feedback culture.

[sig-guy]

So a lot of us do not have extensive experience with firearms and are here to learn. When it comes to private party transfers there isn't much to rely on beyond a person's word, and their feedback score.

I was recently involved in a transaction with a calgunner who has a 100% feedback score with over 100 ratings for a $700+ pistol, and I put too much faith in numbers.

When I eventually picked the gun up I took it to my gunsmith for refinishing and he called me back to notify me that the frame was cracked. I sent the firearm back to the manufacturer, and they say it cannot be repaired. It will cost me over $500 to replace, which puts my total well over the price of a completely new gun.

I've contacted the user asking them to make this right with me, and my PM has been ignored. I think a $400 refund would be fair.

Has anyone here been involved in a similar situation and had it resolved favorably? Do I have any recourse beyond leaving the user negative feedback? Any advice would be appreciated.

This brings me to my next point. I have not yet left the user feedback, and he has not done so for me. I'm certain my negative feedback will be answered with the like, but I held up my end of the bargain when I showed up and paid for the firearm. The culture of feedback on this forum seems to be very quid-pro-quo with sellers holding-out on + feedback until the buyer has initiated the process. When surrounded by people who put so much stock in personal responsibility this behavior doesn't make sense to me....

[L4D]

I dunno man. If you didn't see it before the purchase it could have happened during the 10-day waiting period.

[Intimid8tor]

So you bought an item, that you didn't thoroughly inspect and are ssuming the seller knew. It's on you. Inspect what you buy before you buy. There is some risk with PPT and buying used.

[CWDraco]

How old is the gun? Is this something the Seller would have known about? What were the terms of the sale? LNIB, NIB, Used,...AS-IS sale? These terms have meanings beyond saving space in an advertisement.

The fact you immediately sent it to be refinished tells me you bought an old worn out handgun that turned out to be more old and worn out then you ASSUMED. Unless the Seller would have known about this crack, you bought an old used gun as-is. The Seller isn't responsible unless this is a safety issue. Then the Seller didnt sell you an old used gun, they sold you a "Wall hanger". In that case once again did they or would they have known and what were the sale conditions. Those questions would need to be answered to determine how much money you should get back. You are asking for about 60% of the repair cost (or 50% + shipping to the OEM which isnt proper. The shipping cost isnt the Sellers responsibility) 60% is way too high in my book. The Seller sold you a Used gun. You bought a Used gun with the immediate intention of Refurbishing it. At most the Seller would be responsible for 30% of the actual cost to repair the crack and just the crack if this is a safety issue. Cosmetic and longevity of useability do not factor in here.

How bad is this crack? How dangerous is this crack? What frame? Where on the Frame? Dimensions of crack?

[sig-guy]

I understand there are risks buying used. I would like to think that if the tables were reversed I would man-up and take responsibility for firearm I sold that had damage I did not know about.

My assumption that the seller knew about the damage is based on his behavior post-sale.
When we met up we discussed my intentions to have the pistol refinished/re-barreled, and I specifically asked if there was any other damage or issues I should know about. The crack is definitely a safety issue and not cosmetic. It also looks like "wear marks" might have been added in the area to disguise it. I figure ~$350 is a generous value for the used slide/barrel/small parts.

Thanks for the perspective guys. I'm trying to consider both sides/perspectives but of course I can't eliminate personal bias.

[Untamed1972]

I understand there are risks buying used. I would like to think that if the tables were reversed I would man-up and take responsibility for firearm I sold that had damage I did not know about.

My assumption that the seller knew about the damage is based on his behavior post-sale.
When we met up we discussed my intentions to have the pistol refinished/re-barreled, and I specifically asked if there was any other damage or issues I should know about. The crack is definitely a safety issue and not cosmetic. It also looks like "wear marks" might have been added in the area to disguise it. I figure ~$350 is a generous value for the used slide/barrel/small parts.

Thanks for the perspective guys. I'm trying to consider both sides/perspectives but of course I can't eliminate personal bias.

Buyer beware. All sales are final. If you want a "warantee" then buy new from a dealer. Maybe the guy sold the gun because he needed the money to pay bills and the money is gone now. Plus, aren't you now expecting him to take your word for it that the gun is actually damaged, or that you didn't somehow cause the damage after picking it up?

[Standard]

Yeah, that's the problem buying used.
You buy something you assume is in good order, seller sells something he assumes is in good order. Later you find out that something is wrong, but neither you nor the seller knows when or how that happened. Was it while he had it and you just didn't notice, or did something happen after the buyer purchased it?
That's why it's important to be very aware of what you are buying, what to look for, and be thorough.
Not saying this applies to your case, but in general it's a good idea.

[Steve_In_29]

You pays your money, you takes your chances when buying PPT.

Unless it is something you can prove the seller knew about and didn't disclose, there isn't really any recourse. Especially if your smith found the crack with a visual inspection, which means you should have seen it to.

[redcliff]

There are plenty of sellers here on Calgun's that would stand behind a sale they made and take back a defective item; sorry that you apparently didn't deal with one.

I'm surprised the frame can't be repaired, what type of handgun is it? Not all frame cracks on 1911's for example even need to be repaired, and most that do can be welded.

[DCF]

To be fair, the crack might have been covered up by the grip and how many of you take off the grip during inspection process? But that's the situation with buying used items, everything is sold as is unless it just flat out doesn't function at all. I would message the seller but there is really nothing much that you can do. Can a gunsmith repair a cracked frame?

[Ubermcoupe]

Did you contact the seller regarding the issue before you had it repaired/replaced?

The original seller might have been interested in making it right by just taking it back, but now you’ve had it repaired and you’re just asking him for money?

I feel for you OP, you’re in a tough spot. Hope it works out as best as it can.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Caveat Emptor

This is unfortunately one of those live and learn situations.

[Citadelgrad87]

Buyer beware. All sales are final. If you want a "warantee" then buy new from a dealer. Maybe the guy sold the gun because he needed the money to pay bills and the money is gone now. Plus, aren't you now expecting him to take your word for it that the gun is actually damaged, or that you didn't somehow cause the damage after picking it up?

This is amoral in my opinion. Buyer beware does not excuse a seller from any/all/every responsibility, particularly if he knew of the damage.

[negolien]

Buyer beware. All sales are final. If you want a "warantee" then buy new from a dealer. Maybe the guy sold the gun because he needed the money to pay bills and the money is gone now. Plus, aren't you now expecting him to take your word for it that the gun is actually damaged, or that you didn't somehow cause the damage after picking it up?

Sucks to be you but I concur with the above. All private sales are on you to make sure it's not damaged. I purchased an AR from a member here that had a bad fire control group and I sucked it up and replaced it with a new FCG. It was sold as is so /shrug

[sig-guy]

I sent the pistol to the manufacturer hoping for an inexpensive fix, or lucking out on a warranty replacement. They say there is too much liability in repair due to the nature of the damage.
It was after this point that I contacted the seller, and even offered to show him my invoice and email exchange with the manufacturer so he could see my claim is not fabricated. He has not replied, and I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt by not posting his s/n - I would also appreciate that anyone with details about the specific parties not post publicly.

I didn't straight out ask the original seller for $400. I asked him to help me make it right and left the ball in his court. I posted that here to see how others felt about the value.