Non-NFA Shotgun?!? (Shockwave Technologies 14" bbl)

[AYOxITZxACE]

DELETED

[tekrus05]

On paper it makes sense, but in the court of law that's a whole different level.

[Ed_Hazard]

Intersting position taken both by the Youtuber and Shockwave. Personaly I'd go the tried and proven methods in the following thread.

From the Calguns thread,

Under 12020b8, we can build/buy an AOW, which are weapons that don’t really fall into the pistol, rifle, or shotgun mold. The most common example would be the short-barrel shotgun-type weapons that don't have a shoulder-stock and have never had a shoulder-stock.(emphasis mine) An Example would be the Serbu Super-Shorty. Some Combo guns with a shotgun and rifle barrels less than 18" are AOW.
Pen guns fall are AOW, but they don't fall under the 12020b8 exemption. They are specifically excluded from the 12020b8 exemption. But other types of gadget guns like cane/crutch/flashlight guns should be exempt.

all the info you need in this thread,

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693

[CWDraco]

Its a DD. Which is ANY firearm with a bore over 1/2" that isn't a shotgun. That isn't a shotgun because all shotguns are defined as shoulder fired. No I didnt watch the video.

[ke6guj]

[CENTER]

Apperantly, if your shotgun never had a buttstock, is over 26", it is legal to own... Or something like that. Any thoughts on this modification or legal information about this, feel free to contribute. Please, no close-minded, or unintelligent comments.

I'm really trying to see what's the deal with this modification, if its legal, and if anyone else has done it. All the reference websites will be listed below this text. Thanks!

if you read the opinion letters, you'll see that ATF has stated on multiple occasions that it is considered a legal longgun and non an illegal AOW.

Now, that item would be a CA-defined SBS in CA, and an "unconventional pistol" as well, so you want the AOW registration on it. trying to avoid the NFA on it hurts us instead of helping us.

Its a DD. Which is ANY firearm with a bore over 1/2" that isn't a shotgun. That isn't a shotgun because all shotguns are defined as shoulder fired. No I didnt watch the video.

it might technically be considered a DD, but that would mean that just about every PGO "shotgun" ever made would be a DD, but I don't think that ATF wants to open that can of worms. There would be millions of people that would get thrown into the NFA world, and once they found out how easy it was to deal with in the end, I think they would end up with even more NFA toys.

And once it is registered as a DD, you get to add a shoulderstock to it. So, do they want those millions of PGO firearms to become even more evil SBSs?

[unusedusername]

It is possible that this could be federally legal as a "Title 1 long gun", however it clearly falls astray of the SBS laws here in CA the same way the Judge pistol does.

It seems like a really bad idea here in California.

If you really want a shorter shotgun, NFA one.

[CWDraco]

if you read the opinion letters, you'll see that ATF has stated on multiple occasions that it is considered a legal longgun and non an illegal AOW.

Now, that item would be a CA-defined SBS in CA, and an "unconventional pistol" as well, so you want the AOW registration on it. trying to avoid the NFA on it hurts us instead of helping us.



it might technically be considered a DD, but that would mean that just about every PGO "shotgun" ever made would be a DD, but I don't think that ATF wants to open that can of worms. There would be millions of people that would get thrown into the NFA world, and once they found out how easy it was to deal with in the end, I think they would end up with even more NFA toys.

And once it is registered as a DD, you get to add a shoulderstock to it. So, do they want those millions of PGO firearms to become even more evil SBSs?

The ATF already said it is a DD under the right conditions, one condition is arrested, the other condition is slug ammo. Its up to the DA to go down that round. If they call the ATF, they will have the support of the Federal Government to charge the suspect with an NFA / GCA violation.

The ATF says the same with about a flare launcher. Alone its fine. Once you are arrested and possess ammo that is launched via the flare launcher such as golf balls or roofing nails, the Flare Launcher becomes an unregistered DD.

[AYOxITZxACE]

So basically, there's no LEGAL way to convert a shotgun into the one mentioned above without any kind of stamp. In my case, I have a Mossberg 500A that was originally manufactured with a pistol grip. Since it didn't originally have a buttstock, I can cut the barrel to a length that with the Raptor grip, is an overall length of over 26"? Yay or nay?

[unusedusername]

You can not reduce the barrel to less then 18" legally in CA without either a dangerous weapons permit (which they don't issue) or an AOW tax stamp.

[Capybara]

Unfortunately, the door in California has closed for AOWs. I recently received my stamp for my AOW and the dealer said that with the pending approval of AB169, by the time the ATF issued a stamp if you applied now, it will be too late in California to deliver because SSE will be banned.

The only way the door on semi-auto and pump AOWs will open again in California is if AB169 somehow doesn't pass into law. My dealer did say that it would be possible to still apply for a Form 4 for a SxS or single shot AOW because they do not need to be SSE'd to deliver to the end user.

[Never Convicted]

[ke6guj]

Yes, those are considered to be an SBS per CA law, but the PC has a specific exemption from the SBS prohibition for those items that the feds considers to be AOWs and that are properly registered.

16590. As used in this part, "generally prohibited weapon" means
any of the following:
(t) A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, as
prohibited by Section 33215.
(v) An unconventional pistol, as prohibited by Section 31500.




17710. (a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to
"any other weapon" as defined in subsection (e) of Section 5845 of
Title 26 of the United States Code, which is in the possession of a
person permitted to possess the weapons under the federal Gun Control
Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), as amended, and the regulations
issued pursuant thereto.

[AYOxITZxACE]

I thought in order to be a SBS, it had to be BOTH? (barrel under 18" and under 26" overall) In other words, if a shotgun was over 26" overall AND had a barrel under 18", without a buttstock, it won't be considered a SBS?

[ke6guj]

I thought in order to be a SBS, it had to be BOTH? (barrel under 18" and under 26" overall)

NOPE, either or.

A short-barreled shotgun means a firearm designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell that has a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches;

In other words, if a shotgun was over 26" overall AND had a barrel under 18", without a buttstock, it won't be considered a SBS?

nope, if made from a shotgun with a shoulderstock, even without a shoulderstock attached, it can be an SBS.

any weapon made from a shotgun which meets the barrel length or overall length criteria

doesn't say that has to "currently" be a shotgun to be an SBS.


what you might be thinking of are AOWs that are made from PG-only smoothbore long guns like the Mossberg Cruiser. they were never manufactured as shotguns, so the "any weapon made from a shotgun" portion of SBS never attaches to them.

[CWDraco]

Also keep in mind a defined shotgun is designed to be shoulder fired, just as a handgun is designed to be fired with one hand.