vendor observation

[SERIAL SNIPER]

i was looking through the vendor section and i noticed there is a vendor who appears to be a 07 ffl using Quentin defense lowers and putting their name on them. when i asked the people at quentin defense if they make any lowers other than there own the girl in the office said they no. is this legal to buy someones 80% lowers machine them out and put your name on them and claim you make them?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=788358

[vliberatore]

No reason why it wouldn't be. They have the proper license and are creating a "firearm" from a block of metal.

[ar15barrels]

i was looking through the vendor section and i noticed there is a vendor who appears to be a 07 ffl using Quentin defense lowers and putting his name on them. when i asked the people at quentin defense if they make any lowers other than there own the girl in the office said they no. is this legal to buy someones 80% lowers machine them out and put your name on them and claim you make them?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=788358

Are you offended that someone would use their 07FFL and actually complete 80% receivers with it, legally marking it with their name?

You realize that all manufacturers have to mark their name on the receivers before they sell them and that there is NO requirement to actually do the machining to be a manufacturer.
You can go to another 02/07 manufacturer and have them make the complete receiver and put YOUR 07 markings on it.

This is completely legal, ethical and how MOST receivers are made.

Do you think Noveske actually machines lower receivers in their shop?
They job them out to other 02/07 manufacturers too...

[Merc1138]

Do you think Noveske actually machines lower receivers in their shop?
They job them out to other 02/07 manufacturers too...

Next thing we know you'll be telling us there's no such thing as Santa Costa.

(how do people still not understand this by now? It's common knowledge that most "manufacturers" aren't actually making the product start to finish.)

[ar15barrels]

(how do people still not understand this by now? It's common knowledge that most "manufacturers" aren't actually making the product start to finish.)

Some people think meat grows in styrofoam trays.

[guns4life]

This thread rules

[lorax3]

It's common knowledge that most "manufacturers" aren't actually making the product start to finish.

I would say the general public thinks the opposite. They associate what they know about brand to equal the quality of the product. But for all we know, Del-Ton and Noveske lowers are made in the same factory, both companies are just going after different markets.

[Merc1138]

I would say the general public thinks the opposite. They associate what they know about brand to equal the quality of the product. But for all we know, Del-Ton and Noveske lowers are made in the same factory, both companies are just going after different markets.

You'd think that with people finally learning about companies like foxconn, that the same concepts might apply to just about everything else. I guess they might assume that it only applies to electronics or asian manufacturing companies. A lot of people still don't understand the deal with some components, but still I'd have figured it would be obvious by now regarding lowers.

[dwtt]

i was looking through the vendor section and i noticed there is a vendor who appears to be a 07 ffl using Quentin defense lowers and putting his name on them. when i asked the people at quentin defense if they make any lowers other than there own the girl in the office said they no. is this legal to buy someones 80% lowers machine them out and put your name on them and claim you make them?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=788358

Is it legal for Harley Davidson to buy brakes from Nissin and put them onto their bikes and put the HD brand on the motorcycle? Is it legal for Boeing to buy aluminum alloy from Kaiser and Alcoa, then make a finished part with the aluminum and put the Boeing name on it? The 80% part is not a firearm, but works well as a paperweight.

You'd think that with people finally learning about companies like foxconn, that the same concepts might apply to just about everything else. I guess they might assume that it only applies to electronics or asian manufacturing companies. A lot of people still don't understand the deal with some components, but still I'd have figured it would be obvious by now regarding lowers.

I've come to learn that the obvious is not so obvious to many people.

[SERIAL SNIPER]

Are you offended that someone would use their 07FFL and actually complete 80% receivers with it, legally marking it with their name?

You realize that all manufacturers have to mark their name on the receivers before they sell them and that there is NO requirement to actually do the machining to be a manufacturer.
You can go to another 02/07 manufacturer and have them make the complete receiver and put YOUR 07 markings on it.

This is completely legal, ethical and how MOST receivers are made.

Do you think Noveske actually machines lower receivers in their shop?
They job them out to other 02/07 manufacturers too...

Are you offended that someone would use their 07FFL and actually complete 80% receivers with it, legally marking it with their name? YES. when you steal another manufactures design pass it off as your own and think nobody will notice. im a little offended. remember this is not a forged lower receiver this is a billet every one on the market is a little different. when you make your own like this manufacture is claiming in one of their posts why wouldn't you change it a little if they truly are manufacturing them?

randall people see a certain product and equate quality to that product i would hate to see somebody buy this product thinking there getting a quentin quality product. when this manufacture is just copying an already existing design and it may or may not be to the same quality of a quentin.

lets talk ethics randall. is it ethically correct for you to steal somebody else's design not pay them royalties?

its like your going out buying a ford truck removing the emblems calling it Randall and not paying ford any royalties then expecting ford not to file a lawsuit against you.

yes i know noveske has other people making there products im well aware that jd does some of there lowers if not all. keep in mind jd does there forged lowers everybody's forged lowers look almost exactly the same. billets are proprietary to each manufacture

[SERIAL SNIPER]

Is it legal for Harley Davidson to buy brakes from Nissin and put them onto their bikes and put the HD brand on the motorcycle? Is it legal for Boeing to buy aluminum alloy from Kaiser and Alcoa, then make a finished part with the aluminum and put the Boeing name on it? The 80% part is not a firearm, but works well as a paperweight.



I've come to learn that the obvious is not so obvious to many people.

Is it legal for Harley Davidson to buy brakes from Nissin and put them onto their bikes and put the HD brand on the motorcycle? Is it legal for Boeing to buy aluminum alloy from Kaiser and Alcoa, then make a finished part with the aluminum and put the Boeing name on it? The 80% part is not a firearm, but works well as a paperweight.
yes its legal if they have a contract with the manufacture. no agreement im going to have to lean towards not legal.

keep in mind your copying a proprietary design.not a raw material

[SanPedroShooter]

I always thought there was a relatively small group of actual 'manufacturers' in the AR world with a lot of people putting different logos on the same thing.

I have a JD Machine lower. I understand they also make lowers for a number of other labels. Which is the same thing other manufacturers do with bolts and barrels.

I have a Palmetto bolt carrier. Pretty sure Palmetto didn't make it. I have a Texas Black Rifle carrier, I think they did make it. At least part of it, not sure.

[Merc1138]

Is it legal for Harley Davidson to buy brakes from Nissin and put them onto their bikes and put the HD brand on the motorcycle? Is it legal for Boeing to buy aluminum alloy from Kaiser and Alcoa, then make a finished part with the aluminum and put the Boeing name on it? The 80% part is not a firearm, but works well as a paperweight.
yes its legal if they have a contract with the manufacture. no agreement im going to have to lean towards not legal.

keep in mind your copying a proprietary design.not a raw material

Well fortunately your opinion doesn't matter, since if it did no one could build a house and sell it since they probably aren't going to list what brand lumber, fasteners, drywall, insulation, cable, outlets, windows, doors, paint, etc. are being used. Things that are all completed products and proprietary designs that can be bought at Home Depot without requiring a contract with the manufacturers.

[cannon]

Manufacturers have bought parts from subcontractors since the beginning of manufacturing.

The sub contractor makes the part to the specs of manufacturer. Those specs may be common to the industry or specific to the manufacturer.

Chevy bought carbs from Rochester etc.

No offense to the OP but that is not "stealing a design." it is buying a product. Nor is putting your logo on a part you bought illegal or unethical. Ford F marked bolts they bought from a subcontractor when they built jeeps (From a Bantam/Willys design) all through WWII.

This procurement process is also why there are many AR argument threads here that Joe's AR is just as good as Big Name. After all they all got their parts from the same place.

[Superduper2013]

i was looking through the vendor section and i noticed there is a vendor who appears to be a 07 ffl using Quentin defense lowers and putting their name on them. when i asked the people at quentin defense if they make any lowers other than there own the girl in the office said they no. is this legal to buy someones 80% lowers machine them out and put your name on them and claim you make them?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=788358

Just want to reiterate the point that others have made and you have ignored. QD makes 80% paperweights any FFL that completes the 80% for sale as a firearm has to put their name on it since they are the ones who manufactured it. If anything goes wrong with the firearm the consumer will not go after QD, but will go after the manufacturer.