MIL vs MOA

[Mr. TactiCALi]

I'm really knew to bolt action rifle's and am wondering what the differences and pros/cons are between the two? Obviously I won't be shooting out to 1,000+ here in Cali but the optic will be mounted on my Remy 700 5R .308 20"BBL ...examples maybe, pics, use etc...

[MicronuT]

it doesn't really matter....

just make sure whichever one you get... you have a matching turret

moa ret/ moa turret ..... mil reticle/mil/mrad turret

otherwise your adjustments will not match what the reticle is telling you to do............ got it?
I don't understand why some companies release mismatching systems, or why people would prefer them

[Merc1138]

it doesn't really matter....

just make sure whichever one you get... you have a matching turret

moa ret/ moa turret ..... mil reticle/mil/mrad turret

otherwise your adjustments will not match what the reticle is telling you to do............ got it?
I don't understand why some companies release mismatching systems, or why people would prefer them

Lazyness and ignorant customers. A lot of people "zero their scope" for an hour because they're just turning the turrets and have no idea what the clicks actually mean. The reticles... people get whatever because it looks cool, they may have every intention of using the subtensions(even if they don't know what they are) but as soon as they see the math involved they ignore it because it looks too complicated, and go right back to kentucky windage and cranking the turrets a little here and a little there.

So the scope manufacturers get lazy and stick moa turrets on scopes with mil reticles because they don't want to make a second set of turrets for that particular line, and the customers won't care but they want a mil-dot reticle.

For the OP, look up both systems, understand how a click on a turret equates to a change in point of aim, then pick the system you want, since you're the one that is going to be doing the math to make adjustments. That's all it really boils down to, two different systems of math to measure an angular adjustment. Just make sure your turrets match the reticle, unless you like converting from one system to another when you shouldn't have to.

edit: Read this thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=154413 not just the first post.

[Spaceghost]

There is a entire forum here about optics, scroll down a bit before posting. Another 1000 yard shooting question, hunting elephants are we?

[SGTKane]

I highly recommend "The Ultimate Sniper" by MAJ John Plaster as a reference guide, even though its getting a bit long in the tooth. The book has two chapters devoted to scopes, and has entire sections is digging into MOA v MIL. For what its worth he advises that "police snipers not military snipers-to use scopes with target knobs [MOA]".

[LCU1670]

A 1/4 moa is slightly more precise (in adjustment abilities) than a 1/10 mil, but either way, match turret to reticle to make your life easier. I used Plasters book years ago, to get the entire process down, by reading his book first l saved money not buying stuff I would later regret, and replace.

I started traditionally with moa, but use mil/mil now.

[FMJBT]

Both are angular measurements. 1 MOA is equal to 1/60 of 1 degree, which comes out to 1.0472 inches at 100 yards. MIL is a more "Metric" adjustment, being 1/1000 of a given distance. 1 MIL at 1000 meters equals 1 meter, or 10 centimeters at 100 meters. Each 1/10 MIL click on the scope knob will move the point of impact by 1 centimeter at 100 meters, 2 centimeters at 200 meters, etc.

Due to the simplicity of the conversions, I definitely prefer the MIL system over the MOA. Making adjustments at various ranges is much easier for me because it mostly just means moving a decimal point rather than actual conversions.

For Mil based scopes, I really like the Bushnell Elite Tactical line. On the low end, you can get the 3-12X44 First Focal Plane that has Mil Knobs and the Mil based G2DMR reticle for around $740. For around $1200, you can get the larger 3.5-21X50 FFP HDMR scope. Either one will get you out to the effective range of the 308, just a matter of how much magnification you prefer.

[alfred1222]

There's a sticky in the optics forum that discusses this very subject at great lengths

[Mr. TactiCALi]

There is a entire forum here about optics, scroll down a bit before posting. Another 1000 yard shooting question, hunting elephants are we?

Just answer the question or don't bother wasting your time commenting "veteran"...

[LCU1670]

Noticed "Litz" will be comming out with a dvd shortly, you may wish to get it, in addition to Plasters book.

[AC89]

I find Mil radian much easier. The math for yards is rather easy.

Ranging formula.

(Target size in inches X 27.778) / target size in mils = range in yards

[russ69]

I find Mil radian much easier. The math for yards is rather easy.
Ranging formula.
(Target size in inches X 27.778) / target size in mils = range in yards

Those are sort of mixed units (not really but sort of). If you work in miliradians, you want to work in meters. From Wiki: "One mil approximately subtends one metre at a distance of one thousand metres."

Work in whatever units you are comfortable with, I'm an old due that works in MOA, I don't need to switch to a new unit system.

[high_revs]

the only drawback i experienced with mils is that when i took the long distance shooting class (reading the wind type class) last May @ Sacramento Valley... all the coaches (or most) were MOA guys. only 1 out of my 3 coaches really know. one was completely lost and didn't know the math and when he did, we went the wrong way. he had to get another coach who became my third. it's my bad I didn't come in prepared also on conversion if someone was giving it to me in minutes.

my first coach, kinda new it but would just do some simple math in his head what kind of adjustments he wanted me to do.

these guys are old timers and very, very experienced. but it was in the moa.

so if you do mils OP, at least be prepared to know how to easily convert mils to moa if you're taking a class and your teacher is strictly an moa.

for ex., coach sees where we hit... says adjust 1 mins to the left. now you have mils/mils scope.

[AC89]

Those are sort of mixed units (not really but sort of). If you work in miliradians, you want to work in meters. From Wiki: "One mil approximately subtends one metre at a distance of one thousand metres."

Work in whatever units you are comfortable with, I'm an old due that works in MOA, I don't need to switch to a new unit system.

A bit mixed yes, but it still gives you the range in a unit that most of us are familiar with. That is the formula I use, there are also formulas for doing it in cm/m. however being less familiar with cm/m i stick to in/Yds and yards.

Besides for ranging like that imo work best off of a range card so x yards = y mills = z clicks.

[sdkevin]

Bought MOA and now I regret not getting MIL, the math is soo much easier.