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  • FNH5-7
    Calguns Addict
    • Sep 2009
    • 9407

    It's depressing......

    It's depressing...... the views of gun ownership in the rest of the world that is.

    In the past few days I've been arguing with some Mexicans about gun ownership in their country. I believe that if people were allowed to own GOOD guns such as AR's, Ak's and large caliber handguns, organized crime would think twice about going into homes and taking people who don't pay extortion fees.

    In case some of you didn't know, some "cartels" have found a bigger business in demanding extortion fees from ordinary citizens and have made drug trafficking the smaller part of their business. Some people pay extortion fees for homes which they have already payed off(fee per square meter!), fee per vehicle, 20 pesos per week per child to go to PUBLIC school, fee per Kg of meat/tortillas etc. These groups also charge a monthly fees in order to allow businesses to operate and these fees go as far down as to give them a cut from your paycheck even if you're just a general unskilled laborer. These guys also reposes farms as they wish (even if you pay your fees), they also take any chicks with them that they like and bring them back once they're pregnant.

    I've been arguing with these people that if the average well behaved citizen had the right to protect their families, their stuff and themselves with adequate weaponry, these thugs would start thinking twice before demanding money for doing nothing. The responses I get are that protection of citizens is the governments obligation and they should be obligated to do it. It's funny how people demand the government to do something they either are incompetent and overwhelmed in doing or clearly show no interest in doing. This is why that place is so ****ed up, people think protection is the governments job even though the authorities always arrive after there are human heads rolling on the ground. People have just accepted this as a way of live, and keep demanding for the government to do something even though they have their hands full.

    Listed on their constitution, they have the right to protect their homes, but their government has restricted this right to such a point where only .380/.38 special handguns are allowed as well as shotguns and hunting rifles if you're a member of a club, this is an American liberal's wet dream. According to their government, a .38 special revolver is enough to repeal a criminal attack (lol!), that might be the case in America but it's certainly not the case in Mexico. Out there, when armed thugs arrive to take you away, it's usually 2-3 trucks full of heavily armed men, I'm sorry but a 6 shot revolver is NOT enough to repel an attack from a dozen men armed with real assault rifles no matter how proficient you are.

    Listening to idiots like this makes me real glad to live in America, where even in CA we still have a fighting chance of maintaining our dignity against the criminal element. Also makes me even more inclined to not allow antis to get another inch because once our rights are stripped away, future generations won't know what it's like to live with guns being accessible to them and they'll think it's impossible and very dangerous like the current generation of Mexicans believes.



    Sorry for the rant, had to vent somewhere, the stupidity, it burns.
    Originally posted by FalconLair
    I weep for my country and what it is becoming.
  • #2
    Scratch705
    I need a LIFE!!
    • May 2009
    • 12537

    but here in america we pay a two different cartels too, the federal government and the state government.

    i haven't seen anyone taking up arms against them yet.
    Originally posted by leelaw
    Because -ohmigosh- they can add their opinions, too?
    Originally posted by SoCalSig1911
    Preppers canceled my order this afternoon because I called them a disgrace... Not ordering from those clowns again.
    Originally posted by PrepperGunShop
    Truthfully, we cancelled your order because of your lack of civility and your threats ... What is a problem is when you threaten my customer service team and make demands instead of being civil. Plain and simple just don't be an a**hole (where you told us to shove it).

    Comment

    • #3
      S470FM
      Banned
      • Oct 2011
      • 968

      ^ what kind of comment is that? if you don't like it, then leave.

      idiot.

      Comment

      • #4
        FNH5-7
        Calguns Addict
        • Sep 2009
        • 9407

        Originally posted by Scratch705
        but here in america we pay a two different cartels too, the federal government and the state government.

        i haven't seen anyone taking up arms against them yet.
        Try paying federal income tax, state tax, and a fee to armed thugs just because. If you don't pay they pick you up and chop your head off.

        Your response sounds like you're justifying the actions of ruthless criminals.
        Originally posted by FalconLair
        I weep for my country and what it is becoming.

        Comment

        • #5
          Scratch705
          I need a LIFE!!
          • May 2009
          • 12537

          where do i state i condone the actions of the criminals.

          just by allowing them to own guns isn't going to solve their problems. you really think a single family just b/c they now have guns will sudden shoot any cartel members that come knocking? no, guns don't make you invincible. you really think the cartels would be afraid just b/c their prey got some guns? they can/will out-power them and with the cartels, they don't have to follow laws or morals. they will come when they least expect it, and just torture them to get them in line. how many people do you think will resist when they hear the family next street over tried, and instead they were slowly killed by a butcher knife with limbs, fingers chopped off one by one?

          and lets see here in usa we do have gun ownership, and yet gangs still roam fearless in most major city areas even in states where gun ownership is highest with ccw laws favorable to the public. gun ownership is the end all be all solution.
          Last edited by Scratch705; 07-07-2013, 2:45 AM.
          Originally posted by leelaw
          Because -ohmigosh- they can add their opinions, too?
          Originally posted by SoCalSig1911
          Preppers canceled my order this afternoon because I called them a disgrace... Not ordering from those clowns again.
          Originally posted by PrepperGunShop
          Truthfully, we cancelled your order because of your lack of civility and your threats ... What is a problem is when you threaten my customer service team and make demands instead of being civil. Plain and simple just don't be an a**hole (where you told us to shove it).

          Comment

          • #6
            Arkive
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2010
            • 544

            Those people you're talking about vote and millions of them are coming here illegally and they're slowly changing America. Our great and fearless leaders are now trying to speed up that change with amnesty. The Supreme Court definitely isn't helping either.
            "RESIST WE MUCH" - Al Sharpton

            Comment

            • #7
              SilverTauron
              Calguns Addict
              • Jan 2012
              • 5699

              Originally posted by Colt-45


              In case some of you didn't know, some "cartels" have found a bigger business in demanding extortion fees from ordinary citizens and have made drug trafficking the smaller part of their business. Some people pay extortion fees for homes which they have already payed off(fee per square meter!), fee per vehicle, 20 pesos per week per child to go to PUBLIC school, fee per Kg of meat/tortillas etc. These groups also charge a monthly fees in order to allow businesses to operate and these fees go as far down as to give them a cut from your paycheck even if you're just a general unskilled laborer. These guys also reposes farms as they wish (even if you pay your fees).....
              In other words, the "Cartel" is really a "Government".Ours is nice enough to call their extortion charges "taxes".
              The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be.
              The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be.
              -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE

              The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream.

              Comment

              • #8
                SilverTauron
                Calguns Addict
                • Jan 2012
                • 5699

                Originally posted by Scratch705
                just by allowing them to own guns isn't going to solve their problems. you really think a single family just b/c they now have guns will sudden shoot any cartel members that come knocking? no, guns don't make you invincible. you really think the cartels would be afraid just b/c their prey got some guns? they can/will out-power them and with the cartels, they don't have to follow laws or morals. they will come when they least expect it, and just torture them to get them in line. how many people do you think will resist when they hear the family next street over tried, and instead they were slowly killed by a butcher knife with limbs, fingers chopped off one by one?
                .
                The problem in Mexico to a large extent is cultural. The reason people accept criminals running their lives is because they don't see a reason to oppose it. What's the difference between a Cartel strongman seizing someones farm and a corrupt police officer or public assessor doing the same? Nothing.

                Sometimes, a population would RATHER deal with open crooks then the "elected" politicos, because ruthless scumbags are at least honest about their line of work. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.



                Originally posted by Scratch705
                and lets see here in usa we do have gun ownership, and yet gangs still roam fearless in most major city areas even in states where gun ownership is highest with ccw laws favorable to the public. gun ownership is the end all be all solution.
                Gangs don't control entire cities in right to carry states.Chicago has the strongest gun laws in the only state without CCW at all, and entire sections of Chicago are governed by street gangs. If you live in Englewood, your mayor isn't Rahm Emmanuel. Go ahead, dial 911. You may as well dial Ghostbusters for all the good its gonna do.
                The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be.
                The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be.
                -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE

                The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream.

                Comment

                • #9
                  VegasND
                  Calguns Addict
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 8621

                  In Mexico it's a case of competing governments; one is made up of PAN/PRI and the other is the cartel. It does appear that most of the former is now owned by the latter.

                  In the US it's colluding governments. Most states are happy to cooperate in collecting Federal 'taxes' as long as they get a cut.
                  People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.
                  --River Tam

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    S470FM
                    Banned
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 968

                    the term "cartel" is a misnomer when talking about Mexico's drugs gangs. a cartel controls all facets of production/distribution. OPEC, Pepsi, Coca-Cola are examples of cartels. Mexico has organized crime syndicates.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      2shotjoe
                      CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                      CGN Contributor
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 26638

                      he sounds brainwashed like every lib here, Mexicans been fleeing Mexico since the Spanish came. It's never been a good place to live. It's either Spanish on their genocide march, stealing gold and silver on their way out or the Mexican government stealing gold and silver from the citizens. Now you have multiple factions in Mexico, drug cartels and the government.
                      Originally posted by Kestryll
                      ..you're kind of a sad excuse for an attorney...
                      Originally posted by Libertarian777
                      ...Don't pick either side....

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        FNH5-7
                        Calguns Addict
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 9407

                        Organized crime in some regions of Mexico has become a type of defacto government. Their fed .gov makes incursions into criminal controlled land but is not able to hold it. As soon as the fed .gov leaves it's business as usual for organized crime. I strongly oppose extortion fees by random guys on the street who show up, knock on your door and force you to pay, the consequences being you lose your head.

                        Guns aren't the end all solution but it is a big part of the problem, it is the solution to the security but not to poverty. Some regions down there are up in arms. Crime rates have dramatically dropped in those towns but as soon as the fed police or the military go in they want to confiscate their guns. That is counterproductive, if these people are able to maintain their own security why take their guns away? military and federal police only go in for a few days and the people are left helpless again.

                        Originally posted by Scratch705
                        just by allowing them to own guns isn't going to solve their problems. you really think a single family just b/c they now have guns will sudden shoot any cartel members that come knocking? no, guns don't make you invincible. you really think the cartels would be afraid just b/c their prey got some guns? they can/will out-power them and with the cartels, they don't have to follow laws or morals. they will come when they least expect it, and just torture them to get them in line. how many people do you think will resist when they hear the family next street over tried, and instead they were slowly killed by a butcher knife with limbs, fingers chopped off one by one?
                        Take the story of Aleja Garza, killed 4 zetas and injured 2 more. He refused to give away his farm alive, they wanted his farm and they had to take his life with him. This man had nothing but bolt action hunting rifles and it was early morning, imagine how many more he could have taken with him if he had a Fal/AR/AK? Their gun laws have failed them, it's not one guy armed with a knife coming to to take their farms, it's usually a dozen. You have to think about it this way, who has more to lose and has the bigger reason to fight? the guy with fixed monthly salary? or the guy with a lifetime of hard work and assets?
                        Last edited by FNH5-7; 07-07-2013, 3:44 PM.
                        Originally posted by FalconLair
                        I weep for my country and what it is becoming.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          JohnnyMtn
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2012
                          • 1476

                          Some people who have never had rights (i.e. to bear arms) are unable to fathom the freedom and capabilities that such rights might empower them with. I am not saying that having the ability to have something like an AR would prevent thugs from stealing your money and your daughters. But it does make you wonder that if more people were properly armed in places like Mexico just how rampant would crime be.

                          Personally, I think that if people's govt were not stepping up to protect them then people would organize and protect themselves. And if a militia concept was commonplace in a place like Mexico then I wonder how prevalent organized crime would be.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            JohnnyMtn
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 1476

                            This topic also made me think how sad it is to have people right here in America who have the 2A but choose to not embrace the freedom and the capability that right empowers you with.

                            I understand that not owning guns is their choice, which is fine. But I just shake my head when someone tells me "I don't need a gun for protection - that's what 911 is for." To me, that is sad. The willful decision to relinquish responsibility for yourself and your family over to someone else.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              NOTABIKER
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Mar 2012
                              • 7635

                              our state government does not enforce laws they do not like, and ignore laws that they do not like. what do you call that. this is what happens when one party controls everything. as screwed up as the federal government is if it was not for the republican controlled house we would really be screwed.

                              Comment

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