Long gun transfer to relative in another state

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

Just like title says I am in the middle of a build and want to give it to my brother in law. Do I have to take to a FFL in California or can I just give or to him. Never really got rid of any guns I've bought.

[Librarian]

Just like title says I am in the middle of a build and want to give it to my brother in law. Do I have to take to a FFL in California or can I just give or to him. Never really got rid of any guns I've bought.

Must go through an FFL in BIL's state, as an interstate transfer. See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...rms_Interstate

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

So at the least, can i just bring it with me and start transfer there and he can get it from them. I guess I can call a dealer there to find out the basics if I have to. I just don't want him to know about it right away since it is a gift.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

So at the least, can i just bring it with me and start transfer there and he can get it from them. I guess I can call a dealer there to find out the basics if I have to. I just don't want him to know about it right away since it is a gift.

Some dealers have a company policy of not accepting shipments from out of state non-FFLs. So you might have to call around to a few local gun shops and explain your situation to see which ones will do the transfer and how much they will charge. Prices can vary by a lot.

[Brandon04GT]

Don't mean to hijack but just quickly: Does anyone know what the laws are when it comes to storing long guns with a direct relative who lives out of state? Assuming the relative is not a prohibited person and all the obvious stuff?

Thanks

[fiddletown]

Don't mean to hijack but just quickly: Does anyone know what the laws are when it comes to storing long guns with a direct relative who lives out of state? Assuming the relative is not a prohibited person and all the obvious stuff?...

Package it securely and tell the relative not to open it or have it in a locked case to which he does not have the key or combination. Otherwise, he will possession of the gun and it will most likely be considered a transfer.

[Cheeseball]

Package it securely and tell the relative not to open it or have it in a locked case to which he does not have the key or combination. Otherwise, he will possession of the gun and it will most likely be considered a transfer.

huh,,

[fiddletown]

huh,,

If you want to store a gun with someone in another state, it needs to be cased or packaged in a way that denies him access to the gun itself. If he has access to the gun it self, he has possession of the gun within the meaning of the federal laws governing interstate transfers of guns.

That means that if the gun is not packaged/cased so that he can not get to it, possession will need to be transferred to him by an FFL. And if you want the gun back possession will need to be transferred back to you by an FFL.

Unlawful interstate transfer of a gun is punishable under federal law by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).

Transfer is about possession, not ownership.

Possession means:

1 a : the act of having or taking into control...

Some definitions of "transfer" (emphasis added):

• http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/transfer:

  ...Transfer encompasses the sale and every other method, direct or indirect, of (1) disposing of property or an interest therein or possession thereof;...

• http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transferred:

  2. Law To make over the possession or legal title of; convey.

• http://law.yourdictionary.com/transfer:

  Any and every method of removing something from one person or place to another; specifically, the handing over of possession or control of assets or title. ...

Let's look at the statutes:

1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

   transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

   
   
2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

   transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

Now I'll lay out the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

1. Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).
   
   
2. In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.
   
   
3. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.
   
   
4. There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
   
   
5. The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).
   
   
6. Here's what the statutes say:

   18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts
   
   
   ...
   
   (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
   

   (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,
   
   (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

   
   ...
   
   (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
   

   (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
   
   (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

   
   ....
   
   (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
   ...
   
   (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
   

   (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and
   
   (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

   
   ...

[Cheeseball]

Soooooo,,,,,

I live in Orange County, CA - my father lives in Las Vegas, NV

If i want to leave " my " weapon at my fathers house,,,,,,I need to lock it up so my father has no access to the weapon,,,,,,

If my father gets made at me he can say it's his weapon and keep it if its not locked up,,,,,

Wow,,,,i need another beer

[Librarian]

Soooooo,,,,,

I live in Orange County, CA - my father lives in Las Vegas, NV

If i want to leave " my " weapon at my fathers house,,,,,,I need to lock it up so my father has no access to the weapon,,,,,,

If my father gets made at me he can say it's his weapon and keep it if its not locked up,,,,,

Wow,,,,i need another beer

Enjoy your beer.

That he might claim your gun for himself isn't the problem - it's that the Feds might claim you gave it to him, CA to NV, 'without benefit of FFL', thus making you both eligible for prosecution. That's been the law since 1968.

[Cheeseball]

Enjoy your beer.

That he might claim your gun for himself isn't the problem - it's that the Feds might claim you gave it to him, CA to NV, 'without benefit of FFL', thus making you both eligible for prosecution. That's been the law since 1968.

Thank you for the info,,,,strange place we live in,,,,

So for all the people that say they will " ship there guns to another state " if the SHTF,,,,those rules apply,,,,wow

[Brandon04GT]

Hmm wow...ok. So simple hypothetical:

The California Nazis decide to ban certain types of guns or require it to be registered in a special way. You decide you can't take it anymore and plan to GTFO of California soon. You drive to another state and store your guns (in locked containers) in a direct relative's house for the mean time.

Legal?

[Librarian]

Hmm wow...ok. So simple hypothetical:

The California Nazis decide to ban certain types of guns or require it to be registered in a special way. You decide you can't take it anymore and plan to GTFO of California soon. You drive to another state and store your guns (in locked containers) in a direct relative's house for the mean time.

Legal?

Seems to be. 'Uncle Bob, just let me leave these locked in this trunk for a couple months ...'