Micro Red Dot?

[geedavell]

I see some guys put red dots on their pistols. How do they mount? Do you have to have your gun drilled and tapped? Whats a good one to buy? Maybe $150-$200 price range

[CrippledPidgeon]

I see some guys put red dots on their pistols. How do they mount? Do you have to have your gun drilled and tapped? Whats a good one to buy? Maybe $150-$200 price range

I've never done it (yet), but there are two basic ways.

You can either mount the red dot directly on the slide, or you can have a mount built that attaches to the frame and then reaches up and around the slide.

Slide mount: The slide is likely going to have to be milled, and then drilled and tapped for the new mount. The milling is required to drop the dot to a more reasonable height. Some pistols (generally revolvers and .22 semi-autos) already have provisions for mounting electronic sights, in which case, you just match the mount to the gun, and you're good to go.

Frame mount: Some mounts can attach directly to the accessory rail if you have one, which of course means that everything you do is reversible. Most competition 1911s don't have accessory rails, and the mount is screwed directly into the left side of the frame. Of course, this requires the frame to be drilled and tapped.

I can't really go into advantages or disadvantages of each method, other than mounting directly to the top of the pistol (slide on a semi-auto) allows the sight to be mounted low to the bore-axis, meaning that you don't have to compensate as much when you're not at your zero distance. On the other hand, that means that the sight reciprocates with the slide, so you need a quality optic that can withstand the recoil, and because you're adding to the reciprocating mass of the slide, you may have to play with recoil spring power.

Mounting to the frame means that you can use a sight with a larger aperture, and it doesn't necessarily have to be as durable because some of the recoil will be absorbed by the slide before it's transmitted to the frame. On the other hand, you add a bit of weight for the mount, and since it has to give the slide clearance, it can't be mounted as low.

If you watch Jerry Miculek's videos, I believe in one of them, he says that he muscles the gun to reduce flip, and so that he doesn't lose sight of the red dot. In the latest video (with the Chiappa Rhino), he tries to shoot the pistol upside-down, but in his first two or three attempts, he can't find the dot. With iron sights, you have a good idea of where the gun's pointing, even if your sights aren't aligned, but with a red dot, at least when you're starting to use it, it's hard to know where you're pointing if you can't see the dot.

[jmaglipay]

Take a look at the Burris fast fire 3 red dot. They make specific mounts for certain pistols. A friend of mine has it for his xd and a on his ruger single 10. I have one too but on my mossberg 500.

[geedavell]

Take a look at the Burris fast fire 3 red dot. They make specific mounts for certain pistols. A friend of mine has it for his xd and a on his ruger single 10. I have one too but on my mossberg 500.

Thats the one I was looking at. To put it on a pistol, do you have to remove your rear sight?

[jmaglipay]

I haven't seen it. But there's a rail that's attached to the slide and its high enough to clear the iron sights

[Kodemonkey]

Smith and Wesson is making a CORE series just for this purpose. Does not include the optic at this price. Neat thing with this is that you can co-witness.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_814080_-1_775658_757896_757896_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

[Kodemonkey]

By the way I have shot a Glock 34 setup with a Leopold Deltapoint that was done by Glockworx. They cut the slide to mount it and was a fun gun to shoot in a GSSF match. Really fast on the speed plates.

[postal]

vortex razor red dot can take the abuse of slide mounted as well. Though mine sits on an AR.

The advantage of slide mounted, is the optic is aligned with the slide, which in turn aligns the barrel.

A sloppy slide fit to frame would be irrelevent.

It also doesnt cover the side of the slide with a mount making racking the slide much more difficult.

[Spawn]

Trijicon RMR. I think it's about $500

[postal]

Trijicon RMR. I think it's about $500

RMR $477 - 5 yr warranty

Vortex razor $479 - **LIFETIME WARRANTY**

Burris fastfire II $180 - 1 yr warranty

Burris fastfire III $220 - 1 yr warranty

Dr Optic makes one as well. No info on it- I saw one on a shotgun once.


Miculek took a sponsorship from Vortex. He runs a razor red dot on a 45 deg mount on his 3g rifle. Even though he's sponsored, do you think he would run one if he didnt like it? One of the best shooters in the world uses it. It's a direct competitor with the RMR, and has a lifetime no hassle warranty.


___edit___
OP-

Yes, typically, you remove the rear sight, and the mount will fit into the existing dovetail, or the slide would need to be machined to accept the dovetail on the mount of the dot system.

I also run a nikon monarch "VSD" on my 22/45. It sits on an aftermarket rail I bought from EGW. I also run a VSD on a 10/22. Those are tube style red dots. They run around $240? Variable brightness, and variable dot size. Pretty trick, but not as trick as the vortex razor. It quickly became my favorite dot. They will not withstand the abuse, and are too heavy to slide mount as well.


Kodemonkey....
I didnt watch the video, but the side profile of that setup, I would not expect to 'cowitness' the existing irons. Look at the rear sight height, and the the height of the dot.... heck no that doesnt line up unless the front sight is about 2" tall...... edit- 3 inches tall.....

[bigred1]

I got to handle an M&P 40 that had the rear site moved up just behind the ejection port and the rear of the slide milled down. He was running a Dr Optics version. It was a really trick set up that allowed co-witness and the hood of the dot didnt really protrude enough to be obnoxious.
I wish I could remember the name of the smith he sent it to but he said overall price was around $600 (mill work, sites and shipping).

[postal]

I got to handle an M&P 40 that had the rear site moved up just behind the ejection port and the rear of the slide milled down. He was running a Dr Optics version. It was a really trick set up that allowed co-witness and the hood of the dot didnt really protrude enough to be obnoxious.
I wish I could remember the name of the smith he sent it to but he said overall price was around $600 (mill work, sites and shipping).

Doesnt sound like a bad price knowing RMR and vortex cost nearly $500...

Dr Optic isnt exactly bargain basement either though I dont know their going price.

Edit- quick search shows Dr optic is $400. website is barely functional. warranty info and faq is unresponsive.

[BrokerB]

Hate batteries. .

[geedavell]

Great info.
Thanks!

[bigred1]

[QUOTE=postal;

Edit- quick search shows Dr optic is $400. website is barely functional. warranty info and faq is unresponsive.[/QUOTE]

the powers of google have failed me. I couldn't find a dr optic for sale. But I thought they were in the $250-$300 range.

I don't like the idea of spending a ton of money on a red dot.