Proof of firearm ownership (receipts)

[jakjakman]

The recent thread about a raid by the ATF and popo (here) as well as the whole firearm confiscation fiasco during Katrina got me thinking about what is sufficient to prove that you own your firearms after they've been seized by the police for any reason. In the thread mentioned above, the owner happened to have receipts for all of his firearms, which is good. On the other hand, I don't have all my receipts even though all of mine were legally purchased by me. Is there a way I can document my firearms in such a way that proof of ownership is established satisfying any requirements to have my firearms returned? One of the reasons I ask is because in the aftermath of the Katrina gun confiscations the firearms were only returned to those individuals who could provide receipts. In one case a man had the cases the rifles where taken from with the serial numbers written on them and they wouldn't give them back.

[5150Marcelo]

receipts or not, once they run the numbers, theyll show who they are registered to.

[code33]

Not long guns. SN isn't on the DROS form.

[knuckled]

I always ask the FFL who does the transfer for a copy of the DROS on handguns and a copy of the 4473 on longguns.

[hoffmang]

If you keep track of where you purchased your firearms, that FFL will have a copy of the 4473 and an entry in his log book that you can use to prove ownership should the need arise.

I simply keep an excel spreadsheet that is the equivalent of an A/D book for all my firearms that don't go in my C&R A/D book.

-Gene

[5150Marcelo]

Not long guns. SN isn't on the DROS form.

Not true... I had San Bernardino County Sheriffs run the #'s on my AK before the AW ban and Registration ordeal (1997ish)
My name came up.
They were called out when someone heard a shots fired... on PP, in the desert, outside city limits. They came, they checked, they left. (all was legal ofcourse)

[wceviper]

If you keep track of where you purchased your firearms, that FFL will have a copy of the 4473 and an entry in his log book that you can use to prove ownership should the need arise.

I simply keep an excel spreadsheet that is the equivalent of an A/D book for all my firearms that don't go in my C&R A/D book.

-Gene

Could you provide a template that you use? I am curious to know what information I should be keeping track of. I have a decent retreival system setup, so I can provide/get receipts if needed.

My next step is to scan my documents and burn them to a CD/DVD for storage in safe deposit box.

[USN CHIEF]

Gene, having the Excel spread sheet sounds like a good idea that I will start too for all my guns. My only concern with that would be if the FFL goes out of business then what happens to the 4473's? I am assuming that you would be SOL to prove ownership if you don't have the 4473 right?

[knuckled]

If you keep track of where you purchased your firearms, that FFL will have a copy of the 4473 and an entry in his log book that you can use to prove ownership should the need arise.

I simply keep an excel spreadsheet that is the equivalent of an A/D book for all my firearms that don't go in my C&R A/D book.

-Gene

Nice, last week I made a spreadsheet myself with all the info and encrypted it and then stored online so that if anything happens to the house/guns/paperwork I'll be able to access it from anywhere with a computer.

[knuckled]

Could you provide a template that you use? I am curious to know what information I should be keeping track of. I have a decent retreival system setup, so I can provide/get receipts if needed.

My next step is to scan my documents and burn them to a CD/DVD for storage in safe deposit box.

I'd at a minimum keep track of:

make/model
serial number
date of purchase/transfer
source of purchase, (dealer/private party, with contact info)
Location of FFL where transfered

You may also be interested in listing other things for 'statistical' purposes, like purchase price etc.

[knuckled]

Gene, having the Excel spread sheet sounds like a good idea that I will start too for all my guns. My only concern with that would be if the FFL goes out of business then what happens to the 4473's? I am assuming that you would be SOL to prove ownership if you don't have the 4473 right?

If they go out of business wouldn't they have to turn over the paperwork to the BATFE? Though it would probably be a PITA trying to get access to that.

[hoffmang]

My rows are:
Type Make Model Serial Caliber Date Acquisition (4473) Notes Disposition

Type=Handgun/Rifle/Shotgun
Make is the same make that the FFL would have entered into his log book
Acquisition is FFL Name and City/State or "gift" as I have a couple of arms that were legally acquired from family at times when I lived in other states
Notes - I keep notes of who I bought a PPT from (different than the FFL), whether it was new or used, for some rifles it's how currently configured and also where stored if not in my safe
Disposition is obvious and I really only have one gun in that category...

As to an out of business FFL, his records get transferred to ATF. A FOIA request should get you a copy of the 4473 - especially if you have the date and serial number as well as FFL name and location.

-Gene

[catechon]

I scan copies of all the DROS forms and receipts w/ serials, and keep backups.

[odysseus]

Relevant reciepts and forms can be imaged (scanned) and also photos of the assets all put on to CD/DVD. Then store this securely off site with any other paperwork. I do this for insurance purposes.

[Rem1492]

http://www.drzero.org/hurricane/

firearm link.
I have a lot of guns with no receipt. No DROS out of CA, so I just take photos of the serial#s and full shots and record them to a CDR and mail it to the parents house for safekeeping.