My friends house got raided by ATF and Sheriff! **More info added**

[hawk81]

You know there are some people willing to die for what they believe in and have nothing to loose. I am one of them.

Riiiiight... let us know how that turns out for you...

[audihenry]

You know there are some people willing to die for what they believe in and have nothing to loose. I am one of them.

Die for what they believe? And what exactly is that?

You'd be a fool with a death wish to not allow a LEGAL, warranted search.

[biscuitninja]

You'd think there would be several lawyers chomping at the bit to take this..... Especially if it trounces on rights and amendments, plus an illegal search, destruction of property, etc. etc. etc. Field day and possibly payday.

-bix

[Dark&Good]

Yeah sue the hell out of them and use the money to buy more guns. Then take pictures of the guns and send the photos to that same department.

...and to that neighbor.

[hnoppenberger]

we would like to know what happens next keep us posted

[rp55]

You're willing to pay an $8,000 retainer fee and another $50,000 during the investigative period just to find out who filed the false complaint?

Yes and I have done a couple similar things.

First off it would not cost that much. I hire a young, fresh out of law school, attorney and pay him by the hour to do what I tell him to. The mistake that too many people make in circumstances like this is to hire attorneys and then let them tell them what to do. This is not always true, especially in criminal matters or large business deals, but for hassling someone it works out pretty well.

Second, right is right and you cannot put a value on it. I remember when I was in business school studying quantitative methods (or something like that) and one of the illustrations they used (for EVPI I believe) was analyzing the cost of settling a lawsuit versus the cost of fighting the lawsuit. The fact of whether the lawsuit was bogus or not was never considered. The professor looked at me like I was crazy when I asked about that point and gave me some condescending answer to that effect. I resolved then and there that I would never be party to something like that. There are now a generation or two of people who have been brought up on that type of crap which just encourages more of that stuff. I was once involved in a dispute over some business dealings in the mid 90's where someone tried to shake me down like that, not for cash but for a certain business accommodation. I wrote the guy and his lawyer a letter, I explained to him why he was clearly in error and closed by saying that he would never see a penny out of me because I would spend myself into bankruptcy fighting him before I ever gave him a cent. He knew me and knew that I was not blowing smoke and dropped the issue.

So yes, I would spend a bit of money to find out who filed a bogus report on me. And then I would see to it that someone paid dearly for it. It's about attitudes, perception and reputation. I operate in businesses where handshake deals are common. If I am in the wrong I make it right no matter what. People know that about me. On the other hand, if you do me wrong and don't make it right you had better stay up nights thinking about what's going to happen to happen to you. I want people to know that about me as it tends to avoid problems like the one under discussion in the first place. Yes revenge can be a cold and expensive dinner but I will savor every bite of it.

[nick]

Yes and I have done a couple similar things.

First off it would not cost that much. I hire a young, fresh out of law school, attorney and pay him by the hour to do what I tell him to. The mistake that too many people make in circumstances like this is to hire attorneys and then let them tell them what to do. This is not always true, especially in criminal matters or large business deals, but for hassling someone it works out pretty well.

Second, right is right and you cannot put a value on it. I remember when I was in business school studying quantitative methods (or something like that) and one of the illustrations they used (for EVPI I believe) was analyzing the cost of settling a lawsuit versus the cost of fighting the lawsuit. The fact of whether the lawsuit was bogus or not was never considered. The professor looked at me like I was crazy when I asked about that point and gave me some condescending answer to that effect. I resolved then and there that I would never be party to something like that. There are now a generation or two of people who have been brought up on that type of crap which just encourages more of that stuff. I was once involved in a dispute over some business dealings in the mid 90's where someone tried to shake me down like that, not for cash but for a certain business accommodation. I wrote the guy and his lawyer a letter, I explained to him why he was clearly in error and closed by saying that he would never see a penny out of me because I would spend myself into bankruptcy fighting him before I ever gave him a cent. He knew me and knew that I was not blowing smoke and dropped the issue.

So yes, I would spend a bit of money to find out who filed a bogus report on me. And then I would see to it that someone paid dearly for it. It's about attitudes, perception and reputation. I operate in businesses where handshake deals are common. If I am in the wrong I make it right no matter what. People know that about me. On the other hand, if you do me wrong and don't make it right you had better stay up nights thinking about what's going to happen to happen to you. I want people to know that about me as it tends to avoid problems like the one under discussion in the first place. Yes revenge can be a cold and expensive dinner but I will savor every bite of it.

Now that's my kind of guy

[Dark&Good]

If I am in the wrong I make it right no matter what.

This is RESPONSIBILITY. One of the increasingly scarce jewels of this planet.

[5150Marcelo]

Any update?

Its been updated. Go back some and see. He basically couldnt afford to get his "free and clear" guns back so he had to forefit them.

[5150Marcelo]

Yes and I have done a couple similar things.

First off it would not cost that much. I hire a young, fresh out of law school, attorney and pay him by the hour to do what I tell him to. The mistake that too many people make in circumstances like this is to hire attorneys and then let them tell them what to do. This is not always true, especially in criminal matters or large business deals, but for hassling someone it works out pretty well.

Second, right is right and you cannot put a value on it. I remember when I was in business school studying quantitative methods (or something like that) and one of the illustrations they used (for EVPI I believe) was analyzing the cost of settling a lawsuit versus the cost of fighting the lawsuit. The fact of whether the lawsuit was bogus or not was never considered. The professor looked at me like I was crazy when I asked about that point and gave me some condescending answer to that effect. I resolved then and there that I would never be party to something like that. There are now a generation or two of people who have been brought up on that type of crap which just encourages more of that stuff. I was once involved in a dispute over some business dealings in the mid 90's where someone tried to shake me down like that, not for cash but for a certain business accommodation. I wrote the guy and his lawyer a letter, I explained to him why he was clearly in error and closed by saying that he would never see a penny out of me because I would spend myself into bankruptcy fighting him before I ever gave him a cent. He knew me and knew that I was not blowing smoke and dropped the issue.

So yes, I would spend a bit of money to find out who filed a bogus report on me. And then I would see to it that someone paid dearly for it. It's about attitudes, perception and reputation. I operate in businesses where handshake deals are common. If I am in the wrong I make it right no matter what. People know that about me. On the other hand, if you do me wrong and don't make it right you had better stay up nights thinking about what's going to happen to happen to you. I want people to know that about me as it tends to avoid problems like the one under discussion in the first place. Yes revenge can be a cold and expensive dinner but I will savor every bite of it.

Right, pay $50,000+ to save $4,000 worth of guns. Right....

[5150Marcelo]

Heres the update.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1702649&postcount=237

[Dark&Good]

Instead of "gun control", it's time to have some "law control" in this country. Another freakin' incident that, if it happened at all, should've ended with minimum
1) financial compensation
2) public apology letter from the invaders
3) this guy's private properties returned promptly

But NO! Let's toss him and lots of papers around for a while, so everybody can see how important we are here in legislation/law enforcement

[audihenry]

Well, he got screwed. No charges ever filed. ATF kept his guns in Pasadena. He was given a deadline to file paperwork and start the process to get his guns back. Filled out paper work out, took it to ATF and nobody would help or even take the paperwork once he told them what was going on. One man told him to lawyer up if he wanted his guns back. He was about to lawyer up till he found out it was gonna cost him an 8000 dollar retainer and could costs up to 50,000 to complete the process, and get his guns back. He didnt have the money for that to save what i think was only about 8 guns.

He spoke to another lawyer about suing the angencies involved for damages, and tramatizing his child, but once he found that the agencies can and will counter suit for the costs of the whole process if he loses (per TMLP), he just decided to squash tho whole thing. He was piping hot, but really cant afford to shell out any bucks right now. TMLLP told him that because it became a federal case, the time that would have to be invested into it, the price was gonna get pretty gnarly.

In the end, he took it with no vasaline. Bottomline, we live in Kalifornia!

Only good thing that came of this, is he gave me whatever ammo they didnt take!

Take it to the ACLU. Even though they are antigun, they are more anti-abuses of government and encroachment of civil rights.

[fleegman]

You will lose and will get hurt.

Well, unlike you, I don't decide whether or not to stand up for my rights based on whether I might "get hurt", and thank goodness others didn't throughout our history.

[Noobert]

Well, unlike you, I don't decide whether or not to stand up for my rights based on whether I might "get hurt", and thank goodness others didn't throughout our history.

Amen.