Level III(+) Armor Question

[DeliveryBoy]

Level III, like all armor ratings, has its limitations. Level III by definition has issues with (pronounced won't stop) m855 (5.56 steel semi-ap). This is a pretty common round, ergo common threat.

This is NOT a debate on steel or ceramics, pros or cons, etc etc... This is about Level III, specifically the UHMWPE/Ultralight/dyneema plates. These plates are possitively awesome.
+weighing in at 3lbs!
+Stops all but AP
-$$$ mucho
-doesn't stop the 5.56 steel core

Anyone know the skinny on some plates that fill the (+) bill and will stop the aforementioned threat? DKX, Tactical Victory Gear, etc etc are all essentially the same. The only two that I have seen are the Famostone Lvl3+ (there is 3 and 3+) made in Israel of course and ridiculous to get ahold of. Not to mention how did they achieve and why cant some gringo here create the same. Second, TAP Gamma with the ceramic first layer of ceramic (which I'm not thrilled about because ceramic is prone to cracking and even more so with such a thin layer) and the supply has completely dried up. Are they even still manufacture?

SO... I don't mind thrown down serious coin for plates but if they don't stop all the most common threats (Lvl III +m855) forget it. I'll double the weight and then some for steel for guaranteed protection.

Sub 4lbs, non ceramic, level3+... is this desired plate a unicorn/white whale?

[alfred1222]

I failed to understand the question or purpose of this thread

[fighterpilot562]

Have you ever looked at the website, bullet proof me?

[MrPlutonium]

I think you're confusing III with IIIA.

[unusedusername]

Start with this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=498169

Avoid Spectrashield, Spectra woven, or Dyneema: This material is based on polyethylene, the same stuff that milk jugs are made of. The armor version is referred to as Ultra High Molecular Weight Poly-Ethylene (UHMWPE). In situations where it gets hot (and most car trunks in the summer can get HOT), it will denature, reverting back to simple milk jug plastic. Armoring FAIL. I used to be a fan of this stuff until I read some great info by Kevin "Mad Dog" Mclung and Doctor Roberts ("DocGKR"), two names that you should look up and listen to. They did some eye opening tests (especially Mad Dog) on the dangers of Spectra. If the material goes over 180 F, it becomes a danger to its wearer.

This means you can't store it in your car in the sun.

Look here:

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml

You are not going to find armor reliably stops rifle rounds at less then 4lbs per plate.

What didn't you like about ceramics anyways?

By the way, the "Level" of the armor has to do with what it stops, and has nothing to do with what it is made of. I've seen a "level III" steel plate.

The "level III+" is a marketing term and does not mean anything, other then it meets or exceeds level III and will fail the testing for level IV. Don't pay extra for a "+" level unless you really know why...

[DeliveryBoy]

Have you ever looked at the website, bullet proof me?

Yes, I'm familiar.

I think you're confusing III with IIIA.

No I am not. I am quite aware of the differences.


Thanks tho!

[DeliveryBoy]

Start with this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=498169



This means you can't store it in your car in the sun.

Look here:

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml

You are not going to find armor reliably stops rifle rounds at less then 4lbs per plate.

What didn't you like about ceramics anyways?

By the way, the "Level" of the armor has to do with what it stops, and has nothing to do with what it is made of. I've seen a "level III" steel plate.

The "level III+" is a marketing term and does not mean anything, other then it meets or exceeds level III and will fail the testing for level IV. Don't pay extra for a "+" level unless you really know why...

Now we're cooking... Thanks for the substantive answer. Yes, I am quite familiar with this thread and actually most of DocGKR's work. He has some phenomenal experience and continues to do great testing. in regards to your quoted section, that pertains to Level IIIA soft armor. If you read to the bottom of the post regarding Rifle Plates, he discusses the UHMW/spectra/dyneema etc plates...

Spectra- Wait, didn't I just say don't use this? Yes, yes I did. I am including this here for information purposes, and also because it is a gray area. Spectra in hard armor is not as HUGE a danger as soft armor (this from DocGKR) because of the amount of heat required to get it isothermic (the same temp throughout). So, if you have Spectra hardplates, there you go. Standalone Spectra plates can stop rifle rounds with enough layers. It stops rounds via frictive braking (think of bullet brake). However, be advised there are some rounds that will penetrate UHMWPE plates, such as M855 green tip. So again, do your homework. AN EXAMPLE IS FOUND HERE:

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-32839.html

GREEN TIP M855 IS NOT IN THE SPEC FOR LEVEL III, SO DON'T ASSUME.

At the bottom Doc even emphasizes the issue of level III not stopping m855. The rating doesn't include that ammo. 3lb UHMW plates are very effective at reliably stopping rifle threats... with one minor exception- that being m855. In WROL m855 should be taken into consideration. I know the "+" isn't a true rating, rather it signifies that it stop more than it is supposed to. As for ceramics, I don't like them for 3 reasons. Generally as heavy as steel plates. Can crack and need to be xrayed of which I do not have the means to do so nor replace if need be. And third, I don't need the ability to stop AP ammo. Not really a serious threat IMHO.


Let us continue this discussion I like where we are heading.

[DeliveryBoy]

If you want some GREAT testing of Doc's and just straight knowledge bombs, check the link at the bottom of the article (supplied here also)

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-32839.html

Here, He tests and discusses Lvl 3 plates for patrol (or civies)...

[unusedusername]

The big reason I personally avoid that style of armor (I use traditional ceramic + woven kevlar soft) is due to my lazyness:

I don't always remember to keep the armor out of the car when the hot sun is on it, and the inside of my car easily gets to 180F. The "it breaks down when it gets hot" thing is a deal breaker for me.

If I had the style of armor that stopped working at 180F, then mine would have become useless long ago.

That, and with ~6lb per plate "in conjunction with" ceramics (so 4 extra lbs over your 4lb per pate desire) you get level IV ratings.