Creating a Living Trust for AOW

[thefinger]

After reading the "Do you want an AOW or SBS/SBR in CA?" thread I've become VERY interested in eventually chopping down a C&R shotgun or maybe a newer model pistol-gripped "shotgun."

For many of us it seems like the "get your CLEO to sign the NFA paperwork" route may be an impossible dream, so I am dying to get some information on how easy/difficult it would be to create a trust to legally bypass the CLEO signature requirement.

Since I have yet to graduate (or attend, lol) law school, I figure I'd ask some of you fellas in hopes that you might know a little something about this subject.

Is the Living Trust route plausible for the average joe who just wants another cool toy?


EDIT: Admins, I'm not sure if this belongs in the General gun discussions section or 2nd Amendment/Laws section... I hope its in the right spot.

[Waingro]

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_870_express_7-shot.asp

I am also an average Joe who wants a AOW shotgun/rifle. I would love to have things explained in layman's terms.

[gbp]

Lot of info here http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Board=7&page=1 on setting up trusts. just scroll through the topics.

[adamsreeftank]

It sounds fairly easy to set up the trust, but NFA items can create legal complication if your eligibilty to own them changes or you die. You should have special language in the trust document that deal specifically with the disposition of the NFA items.

I've been looking for this type of language and haven't found any yet. If anyone has done this and is willing to share it, it would be very helpful for the Calguns community. Otherwise, a call to a California trust attorney with knowledge of NFA issues (rare) may be in order.

[thefinger]

Lot of info here http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Board=7&page=1 on setting up trusts. just scroll through the topics.

Hey, thanks.

I spent about 5 minutes on there and found some useful information! It seems like setting up a trust for the purpose of obtaining NFA items is a piece of cake.

I was just looking through this thread, and found an awesome link to a website with a sample trust and instructions, so you can make your own trust.

I still need to find a Form 1 and figure out how to fill it out, but I assume that is fairly easy.

Check out that sample trust and instructions and tell me what you think! Sounds legit to me, but then again I haven't slept all night because I didn't want to risk not waking up in time to head to the range.

[thefinger]

Some questions about filling out FORM 1, assuming I create a trust...

For part 2: Would I check "individual" or "corporation or other business entity"?

For part 3b: Would I put my personal name and address, or would I put the name of my trust?

For parts 4e and 4f: Would I put the original lengths of the firearm, or would I put the lengths that I am planning to make the firearm after I receive my tax-stamp?

For part 13: Would I just leave it blank?

[ke6guj]

The PDF I ended up using is http://users.rcn.com/thejackal/sampl...rust_form1.pdf , which looks just like the Form 1 that I ordered from the ATF. Its already sample filed out, I just changed out Homer's Trust's info for my Trust's info.

And the Certificate of Compliance, http://users.rcn.com/thejackal/sampl...st_citizen.pdf that I filled out to certify that the Trust is not a nonimmigrant alien. It may or may not have been needed, it depends on the ATF examiner, but it was easier to fill it out and include with my app, than to get it kicked back because I didn't have it.

Here is a sample Form 4 that I could use if I was buying from a dealer instead of making it myself on a Form 1, http://users.rcn.com/thejackal/sampl...rust_form4.pdf .

There has been a lot of changes in the Form 1 lately. In fact, that link to the Form 1 on the ATF's site was pulled since it has the ATF Approval signature sign-off on the back. They were going back and forth with requiring the version of the form 1 with the approval on the front. There is a newer version of the Form 1 that the ATF revised September 2007, but it hasn't been PDF'ed yet. They will send out a paper copy if you order it from the ATF website.

And at the current time, AFAIK, the ATF is still accepting the July 2004 revision with the front ATF Approval signature sign-off spot. At least they did last month for my AOW Form 1.

[redcliff]

Remember that trusts need to file seperate tax returns, and I believe are subject to alternative minimum tax.

[Dump1567]

I always found this site useful.

http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy_NFA_class3_weapons_with_a_revocable_living_trust_without_a_CLEO_signoff.html

[RANGER295]

Hey, thanks.

I spent about 5 minutes on there and found some useful information! It seems like setting up a trust for the purpose of obtaining NFA items is a piece of cake.

I was just looking through this thread, and found an awesome link to a website with a sample trust and instructions, so you can make your own trust.

I still need to find a Form 1 and figure out how to fill it out, but I assume that is fairly easy.

Check out that sample trust and instructions and tell me what you think! Sounds legit to me, but then again I haven't slept all night because I didn't want to risk not waking up in time to head to the range.

[hoffmang]

Remember that trusts need to file seperate tax returns, and I believe are subject to alternative minimum tax.

Living trusts do not need separate tax returns. Any income or deductions incurred by the trust can be treated as personal income on your standard 1040.

-Gene

[redcliff]

Oh good to know, my only experience has been with a testamentary trust .

Thanks for setting me straight.