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Rifle/pistol/shogun combat-style drills/scenarios

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  • Gemini Effect
    Member
    • Feb 2013
    • 341

    Rifle/pistol/shogun combat-style drills/scenarios

    Hello everyone-

    Soon, a group of friends will be heading out to Barstow BLM land primarily to do some Youtube videos (a project of mine) and just do some shooting in general.

    While I am out there (about 2 hour drive from Long Beach), I want to maximize the oppportunity and make several videos.

    The part I am requesting help on is coming-up with or using current proven combat scenario drills that I can incorporate into my videos. I am asking if anyone can advise certain drills that replicate combat scenarios as well as even training drills for rifle, pistol and shotguns Below are some facts that may help in your suggestions if you have any:

    1.) Weapons that will be used: AR15, XD40, Ruger P345, Mossberg 500, Charles Daly pump.

    2.) 4 x AR500 steel targets in silhouette cut. (2 medium size, 2 smaller size)

    3.) We have no obstacles we can bring with us such as boxes, pallets or boards etc. Only potential obstacle or 'real life' object we will probably only have access to is a Toyota Tundra truck.

    4.) Most people attending are firearms novices so dynamic movement whilst shooting will be kept to a minimum if at all. No more than 2 people will be shooting during the 'shoots' and in most cases, only one person will be 'engaging'the targets while the others do the camera work.

    5.)I plan on using small orange cones when it comes time to do the more 'training' type videos.

    Currently, I have come-up with the following scenarios in the video part that we will try to replicate as if we were real life operators/soldiers

    1.) Anti-IED team: Engage 4 steel targets from roughly 200+ yards. Deploy cameras on gun, from above and cameras near the actual steel targets to show hits.

    2.) Somali pirate hostage: Purchase balloons and tape them behind and to the side of the head section of the steel targets. Engage from 100-200 yards out and try to hit the balloons of course which represent the pirate heads. Cameras will be close to the targets to show whether we miss, hit the pirate or accidentally kill the hostage, lol.

    3.) Breaking contact: Enage targets at close range with pistols, turn, run to a certain area,turn, engage with AR15, run back to truck, turn and use truck as a rest and continue shooting and get in truck for extraction.

    4.) Breach and clear: Use our two pump 12 guages to rush into an area and obliterate a bunch of watermelons (Taliban watermelons) with bird shot. This scene may not look as impressive as we have no obstacles to represent a structure.

    5.) Long range sniping: I recently purchased a Primary Arms 14x zoom scope which has not been zero'd yet but I am somewhat confident I can do it and if so, I plan on doing a short video on this and put the target out to about 300-400 yards.

    As for the pistol/rifle/shotgun drills, well, we can free style it but if anyone has any cool ideas I can incorporate to the video for either the scenario videos or the drill videos, it would be greatly appreciated. I had one idea where we position the cones at various progressive distances and angles to a backdrop.Each cone represents a target further away so you run to each cone and engage the corresponding target so there will be a variation in range and angle.

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions or words of caution and wisdom.

    Mark
    Last edited by Gemini Effect; 03-21-2013, 5:15 PM.
    My YouTube Project: http://www.youtube.com/user/BlueonGoldZ/videos
  • #2
    Massan
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 1042

    1, 2, 5 is GTG.

    3, 4 is just asking for trouble especially with novices.

    Dynamic stuff looks cool, but theres a reason why legit trainers dont let novices sign up for classes that involve much movement/shooting unless their extremely well versed(ie proper gear, proper retention while moving, etc)

    Comment

    • #3
      cmichini
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2008
      • 1739

      Giving a bunch of novices guns and letting them loose in BLM to be tacticool?

      Good thing you'll have video. If for nothing else, it can help the people that stumble upon the dead bodies to know WTF happened.

      Be safe!!!
      NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
      NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

      Comment

      • #4
        unusedusername
        Veteran Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 4124

        Please don't train beyond your ability to be safe.

        I have worked for 6 months on my holster draw and it still isn't very smooth.

        Moving while shooting is remarkably hard, especially on terrain with obstacles. Falling over with a gun in your hands is not fun.

        Please at least dry practice your maneuvers 15-20 times before attempting it live.

        Keep a safe "downrange" at all times, don't do any 180-degree turns then fire unless all your buddies and your truck is bullet proof.

        Comment

        • #5
          unusedusername
          Veteran Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 4124

          Maybe instead take a TFTT class. That way you won't learn bad habits.

          Direct Action Group provides the highest level of cutting edge instruction in the most up to date and progressive firearms skills and tactics for military, law enforcement and private sector personnel. Our programs set industry standards for realism, safety, skill progression and unit cohesion. Whether you are a new officer on the job, seasoned warfighter or civilian shooter, these programs will enhance your existing skill set.

          Comment

          • #6
            Gemini Effect
            Member
            • Feb 2013
            • 341

            Thank you for all the responses and yes, safety is my primary concern.

            - Cmichini: We're not going to be running around with gun though I'm sure you were just using an expression of speech. Only my best friend and I will be doing any kind of moving and it willbe limited at that. I plan to make materiale for multiple videos to maximize my time while out there so the novies will probably be part of my 'intro to pistol' video for all the noobs out there buying guns due to the scare. My Youtube channel at the moment is geared towards people new to guns as my first videos are related to RDS and BUIS zeroing as well as disasseMbly, cleaning and lubing of the AR15.

            - Massan: Well-noted. We will probably simplify those or perhaps make a 'free style' video based more on just shooting stuff up as opposed to making a 'scenario'. Due to your input, it made my brain think that if we do actually make a breaking contact scenario, my friend and I will only move to the next stages after both guns have expended all their ammo for each mag meaning we would be running back with empty guns where we would reload later. Thank you.

            - Unused: Love your avatar. Hilarious. Thank you for the link to the trainers. A bit on the expensive side though there classes are for multiple days. I may look into that but I am thinking of attending ITTS first.

            If anyone can offer any suggestions, even as far as 'drills' are concerned, that would be greatly appreciated.
            Last edited by Gemini Effect; 03-21-2013, 11:16 PM.
            My YouTube Project: http://www.youtube.com/user/BlueonGoldZ/videos

            Comment

            • #7
              postal
              Banned
              • Mar 2008
              • 4566

              My biggest question/concern is pretty simple and straight forward.....

              IF *YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS* DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING... WHY STICK IT ON YOUTUBE TO "TEACH" OTHER PEOPLE??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


              There it is....

              Harsh, but it needed to be said.

              Go to the desert, have fun. Take video for fun. (only)

              I've gotten the distinct impression anyway- though it may be wrong, that you have had no formal training. As such, I simply feel that people are far better served by watching videos and tips from professional trainers.
              Last edited by postal; 03-22-2013, 8:55 PM.

              Comment

              • #8
                unusedusername
                Veteran Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 4124

                my friend and I will only move to the next stages after both guns have expended all their ammo for each mag meaning we would be running back with empty guns where we would reload later.
                This violates safety rule #0 "All guns are always loaded".

                Please don't do anything with an unloaded gun you wouldn't do with a loaded one.

                Sorry, I'm just paranoid about safety when I train.

                Comment

                • #9
                  dieselpower
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 11471

                  Look up el presidente drill

                  We do the knocked down drill a lot. Start out squatted down, pistol in holster, have someone push you over onto your back, while on your back draw and fire at a target 3-5 feet away. Then stand and fire as well. Start with a verified empty gun and everyone watch where the muzzel goes first before going live fire.

                  Shoot in teams providing cover for each other to simulate reloading. practice NOT draining your weapon so neither person is OOA at the same time. Two people squatting down behind a 55gal drum, one person fires at a target 20 yards away, while the other takes cover, then switch. Once again practice with verified empty firearm before going live fire.

                  Place a training round into the other guys magazine to simulate malfunctions or yell, "Jam" when they are firing.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    CDFingers
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 1852

                    Don't you need a katana for shogun combat training?

                    CDFingers

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Gemini Effect
                      Member
                      • Feb 2013
                      • 341

                      Originally posted by postal
                      My biggest question/concern is pretty simple and straight forward.....

                      IF *YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS* DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING... WHY STICK IT ON YOUTUBE TO "TEACH" OTHER PEOPLE??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


                      There it is....

                      Harsh, but it needed to be said.

                      Go to the desert, have fun. Take video for fun. (only)

                      I've gotten the distinct impression anyway- though it may be wrong, that you have had no formal training. As such, I simply feel that people are far better served by watching videos and tips from professional trainers.
                      I personally have had years of firearms experience but yes, no formal instruction as of yet.

                      Part of the trip out there will be for fun but primarily, my videos are based on teaching all the new people out there fundamentals, not 'this is how you stack-up and breach a room full of baddies' or anything tacticool.
                      My YouTube Project: http://www.youtube.com/user/BlueonGoldZ/videos

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Gemini Effect
                        Member
                        • Feb 2013
                        • 341

                        Originally posted by dieselpower
                        Look up el presidente drill

                        We do the knocked down drill a lot. Start out squatted down, pistol in holster, have someone push you over onto your back, while on your back draw and fire at a target 3-5 feet away. Then stand and fire as well. Start with a verified empty gun and everyone watch where the muzzel goes first before going live fire.

                        Shoot in teams providing cover for each other to simulate reloading. practice NOT draining your weapon so neither person is OOA at the same time. Two people squatting down behind a 55gal drum, one person fires at a target 20 yards away, while the other takes cover, then switch. Once again practice with verified empty firearm before going live fire.

                        Place a training round into the other guys magazine to simulate malfunctions or yell, "Jam" when they are firing.
                        Thank you for the suggestion.

                        Is it safe to use this drill on steel targets that are only 3-5 feet away?

                        (see, I am very safety conscious, everyone)

                        I do planonangleing the plates downard so the rounds deflect into the ground by I am worried about only being 3-5 feet away. Is this drill typically done on paper targets?
                        Last edited by Gemini Effect; 03-24-2013, 12:23 AM.
                        My YouTube Project: http://www.youtube.com/user/BlueonGoldZ/videos

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          SuperSet
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 9048

                          Have fun dude and most of all, train safely!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            LCpl Kutches
                            Member
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 211

                            There is so much about this that is.....

                            Combat efficient requires countless training and refinement.
                            Try a few drills, then try those same drills with 36 hour+ of sleep deprivation and two meals.

                            Learn how to sprint and not flag someone, pop-set a corner. Pie a door or a window. Speed reload drills. Place foldable chairs and then force yourself to run to them while placing shots on target as you Pop-set your corner or cover.

                            Learn all this and do it while you are exhausted and when you are tired. Remove your adrenaline crash and push, push, push.

                            Do you have experience as a operator or military? If you dont than its like the blind trying to lead the blind.

                            If you do, than before you show others the tricks, just get them to understand there is a difference between marksmanship and being combat efficient.

                            I would hate to see someone without the proper mentality get trained to operate on the level that is demanded for combat.
                            People freak out when they kill someone, if emotions mattered they would get us killed in combat.

                            There is always that one who cries and risks getting everyone on the team killed. I mean its just a dead body, the guy was just trying to kill you man.
                            That is combat or combat training from experience. You have to break them from the fantasy or else they will die or get you killed period.

                            While they think its cool, all the bull**** goes out the window.

                            1000+ times per action minimum. Slow your heart rate. Smooth is fast and fast is smooth.
                            Remind them to breath.
                            War, it has a smell, it tastes different, it takes a different kind of man, who runs towards gunfire and not away from it.

                            Watch this and thank a veteran next time you see him.
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfrr3kxzJtU

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Gemini Effect
                              Member
                              • Feb 2013
                              • 341

                              Originally posted by LCpl Kutches
                              There is so much about this that is.....

                              Combat efficient requires countless training and refinement.
                              Try a few drills, then try those same drills with 36 hour+ of sleep deprivation and two meals.

                              Learn how to sprint and not flag someone, pop-set a corner. Pie a door or a window. Speed reload drills. Place foldable chairs and then force yourself to run to them while placing shots on target as you Pop-set your corner or cover.

                              Learn all this and do it while you are exhausted and when you are tired. Remove your adrenaline crash and push, push, push.

                              Do you have experience as a operator or military? If you dont than its like the blind trying to lead the blind.

                              If you do, than before you show others the tricks, just get them to understand there is a difference between marksmanship and being combat efficient.

                              I would hate to see someone without the proper mentality get trained to operate on the level that is demanded for combat.
                              People freak out when they kill someone, if emotions mattered they would get us killed in combat.

                              There is always that one who cries and risks getting everyone on the team killed. I mean its just a dead body, the guy was just trying to kill you man.
                              That is combat or combat training from experience. You have to break them from the fantasy or else they will die or get you killed period.

                              While they think its cool, all the bull**** goes out the window.

                              1000+ times per action minimum. Slow your heart rate. Smooth is fast and fast is smooth.
                              Remind them to breath.
                              Wow that was an intense post but we're not gonna do anything that requires your level of expertise and for the 'scenario' videos, they aren't meant to be teaching anything to anyone. Their sole purpose is to make people go, 'hmm. that was pretty cool.nicely made. nice weapons, good editing and good music'.

                              For the stuff that I am teaching, it will be very basic and actually about safety. Thanks for your post.
                              My YouTube Project: http://www.youtube.com/user/BlueonGoldZ/videos

                              Comment

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