Is a flap holster considered CCW?

[bobatnetcom]

I spend a lot of time in the outdoors and would like to carry my handgun in a holster with a flap to protect it from getting beat up. Would this be considered a CCW? What does the CA law say about carrying a handgun in a situation like this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Fritz265]

Open carry in CA is mostly illegal pretty much everywhere except private property.

[Fritz265]

Look up California Penal Code Section 26350

[Fritz265]

26350. (a) (1) A person is guilty of openly carrying an unloaded
handgun when that person carries upon his or her person an exposed
and unloaded handgun outside a vehicle while in or on any of the
following:
(A) A public place or public street in an incorporated city or
city and county.
(B) A public street in a prohibited area of an unincorporated area
of a county or city and county.
(C) A public place in a prohibited area of a county or city and
county.
(2) A person is guilty of openly carrying an unloaded handgun when
that person carries an exposed and unloaded handgun inside or on a
vehicle, whether or not on his or her person, while in or on any of
the following:
(A) A public place or public street in an incorporated city or
city and county.
(B) A public street in a prohibited area of an unincorporated area
of a county or city and county.
(C) A public place in a prohibited area of a county or city and
county.
(b) (1) Except as specified in paragraph (2), a violation of this
section is a misdemeanor.
(2) A violation of subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1) of
subdivision (a) is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars
($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment, if both of the
following conditions exist:
(A) The handgun and unexpended ammunition capable of being
discharged from that handgun are in the immediate possession of that
person.
(B) The person is not in lawful possession of that handgun.
(c) (1) Nothing in this section shall preclude prosecution under
Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing
with Section 29900) of Division 9, Section 8100 or 8103 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, or any other law with a penalty
greater than is set forth in this section.
(2) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be
construed as restricting the application of any other law. However,
an act or omission punishable in different ways by different
provisions of law shall not be punished under more than one
provision.
(d) Notwithstanding the fact that the term "an unloaded handgun"
is used in this section, each handgun shall constitute a distinct and
separate offense under this section.

[paul0660]

Looking forward to post #2.

[voiceofreason]

Hmm... a completely covered flap holster... interesting

I support open carry completely in general as there are some very small statured women I know that are unable to conceal anything larger than a small j frame. They wish to carry a compact to full size gun, but at 90#s are unable to conceal it on their person without placing it in a bag of some type which for many reasons is undesirable.

Going to piggyback off this thread and ask the ? about above.

[Maddog5150]

Kinda jumping the gun here folks. He said outdoors. How do you know he isnt in a national forrest and just wants to clarify for the law. Sheesh

[dpop24]

The way I think he's asking the question is that with the flap closed, the gun would be completely covered and thus "concealed". It would be legal for him to wear the holster with no gun in it, so what is the legality of having a gun in it if nobody really knows if there is a gun in it?

I personally wouldn't chance it, but it sounds like he's only daring to try it out in the woods where presumably he won't run into many people.

[Chavelo]

Get a fishing and or hunting license and you will be OK in National Forest/BLM land...POssibly might have to have to be unloaded though while traveling in an area illegal to shoot in, (like a campground, however in YOUR campground you can carry however you want...)
I've carried on NF land with a Bianchi UM84 holster (US mill issue holster for m9) which has a partial flap, doesnt 100% conceal pistol butt, but close.. Rangers never had a problem with it, but last contact was 3 years ago....

[mag360]

a 90lb woman could still easily conceal a kahr p9 iwb with nothing more than a polo that isn't form fitting.

[negolien]

I spend a lot of time in the outdoors and would like to carry my handgun in a holster with a flap to protect it from getting beat up. Would this be considered a CCW? What does the CA law say about carrying a handgun in a situation like this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

This would be considered open carry. Unless your hunting legally this would be a no no.. CCW is just that Carrying Concealed.

[mcmikeblues7]

Open carry in CA is mostly illegal pretty much everywhere except private property.

This is wrong.
------------------------------------
I would guess it would still be open carry. But I have absolutely NO idea. If you have a fishing license you can open carry if you are fishing, and THEY have to prove you are not fishing. With a hunting license you can conceal while hunting, and again, THEY have to prove that you are not hunting. The only problem with the hunting license route is that you have to carry a gun that is a legal method of take for whatever game you say you are hunting and the game must be in season or you are admitting to poaching.

[CitaDeL]

Open carry in CA is mostly illegal pretty much everywhere except private property.

This is wrong. Open carry is restricted in incorporated city limits and discharge prohibited areas. It is not illegal or banned,... just rendered impractical under most situations in cities.

This would be considered open carry. Unless your hunting legally this would be a no no.. CCW is just that Carrying Concealed.

No, carrying in a flap holster is not open carry. Present jurisprudence defines concealled as 'substantially concealed'. Here is your citation.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Defining_Concealed

Most notably;

People v. Wharton (1992) 5 Cal.App.4th 72 , 6 Cal.Rptr.2d 673 (1992)

Defendant contends there is insufficient evidence of concealment
because the tip of the knife was protruding from his pocket. We
disagree. Only substantial concealment is required. (People v.
Fuentes (1976) 64 Cal.App. 3d 953, 955 [134 Cal.Rptr. 885] [dirk
with handle protruding from waistband found to be a concealed
weapon].)

[Fritz265]

Citadel, please refer to the new law effective Jan 1, 2012 signed by Jerry Brown regarding open carry then respond. I posted the code higher in this thread. I challenge your interpretation that it's merely "impractical" to open carry. But I'm willing to witness you exercise your interpretation of the code, if nothing more than for entertainment value.

[negolien]

huh?

This is wrong. Open carry is restricted in incorporated city limits and discharge prohibited areas. It is not illegal or banned,... just rendered impractical under most situations in cities.



No, carrying in a flap holster is not open carry. Present jurisprudence defines concealled as 'substantially concealed'. Here is your citation.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Defining_Concealed

Most notably;

Not to beat a dead mule but I don't see how a holster on the outside of ones clothing can be Concealed? A pistol in a holster uncovered by clothing would be open carry. If arrested they wouldn't be charged with Carrying a concealed weapon would they? Section F seems pretty clear to me.