When a PPT DROS is denied

[kp1]

When a PPT buyer's DROS is Denied by the DOJ does the SELLER just pick up his firearm or does the seller have to do a DROS to get his own firearm back?

What is the procedure under these circumstances?

[JDay]

The seller no longer owns the firearm once you have filled out the 4473. Shop holds onto it and you can either clear up the problem with the DOJ (if possible) or have the shop put it on consignment and sell it for you. It is your property after all.

[kp1]

I just found this Penal Code section which seems to indicate there needs to be a return forthwith return to the transferor.

However I do not understand if the transferor needs to do a DROS even though it is his firearm?

12082. (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm. The dealer shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not prohibited, in accordance with subdivision (c) of Section 12072. If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, the dealer shall forthwith, without waiting for the conclusion of the waiting period described in Sections 12071 and 12072, return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm. The dealer shall not return the firearm to the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm when to do so would constitute a violation of subdivision (a) of Section 12072.[/U] If the dealer cannot legally return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm, then the dealer shall forthwith deliver the firearm to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county who shall then dispose of the firearm in the manner provided by Sections 12028 and 12032. The purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm, and no other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this section, except for the applicable fee that the Department of Justice may charge pursuant to Section 12076. Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee. The fee that the department may charge is the fee that would be applicable pursuant to Section 12076, if the dealer was selling, transferring, or delivering a firearm to a purchaser or transferee or a person being loaned a firearm, without any other parties being involved in the transaction.You don't need to re-DROS it, you just hand it back without waiting for the ten days.

[tenpercentfirearms]

The seller no longer owns the firearm once you have filled out the 4473. Shop holds onto it and you can either clear up the problem with the DOJ (if possible) or have the shop put it on consignment and sell it for you. It is your property after all.

Wrong.

I just found this Penal Code section which seems to indicate there needs to be a return forthwith return to the transferor.

However I do not understand if the transferor needs to do a DROS even though it is his firearm?

12082. (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm. The dealer shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not prohibited, in accordance with subdivision (c) of Section 12072. If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, the dealer shall forthwith, without waiting for the conclusion of the waiting period described in Sections 12071 and 12072, return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm. The dealer shall not return the firearm to the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm when to do so would constitute a violation of subdivision (a) of Section 12072.[/U] If the dealer cannot legally return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm, then the dealer shall forthwith deliver the firearm to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county who shall then dispose of the firearm in the manner provided by Sections 12028 and 12032. The purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm, and no other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this section, except for the applicable fee that the Department of Justice may charge pursuant to Section 12076. Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee. The fee that the department may charge is the fee that would be applicable pursuant to Section 12076, if the dealer was selling, transferring, or delivering a firearm to a purchaser or transferee or a person being loaned a firearm, without any other parties being involved in the transaction.You don't need to re-DROS it, you just hand it back without waiting for the ten days.

Correct.

[Chaos47]

^This.

However I do not understand if the transferor needs to do a DROS even though it is his firearm?

When DROS fails on the buyer it automaticly does a check on the seller. If the seller is not prohibited and the firearm is legal to transfer it goes back to the seller immediately.

If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, the dealer shall forthwith, without waiting for the conclusion of the waiting period described in Sections 12071 and 12072, return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm.

[JDay]

In that case I guess the buyer could end up getting screwed over with all these DROS denials that DOJ is pulling out of the air lately.

[Chaos47]

Thats why if you have anything questionable in your background you should do a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check.

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pfecfaqs

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf

And if you are selling a firearm it would be a good idea to make a statement in the ad about how you would handle a case like this.

[shadowofnight]

In that case I guess the buyer could end up getting screwed over with all these DROS denials that DOJ is pulling out of the air lately.

How is that ?

The seller now has the buyers money and his firearm back...you can be damn sure the buyer isn't getting his full purchase price back...some is getting skimmed for wasting my time/gas ...twice.

He OWES some money, thats not getting screwed.

Now if the seller trys to keep the full purchase price, thats just theft...I dont think most people honest enough to go through the PPT hassle is going to do that...but you never know with some peoples ethics nowadays.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Now if the seller trys to keep the full purchase price, thats just theft...I dont think most people honest enough to go through the PPT hassle is going to do that...but you never know with some peoples ethics nowadays.

That is why the seller needs to specify a cancellation policy. I would make it rather stiff because you don't just get denied for any old reason. You might be put on delay for something stupid, but usually denials are for something you know you did or your license is suspended.

So if your cancellation policy is upfront and they know they lose their entire amount of money, then they might make sure they are legit. Personally, I would be pissed if I sold a gun and spent the person's money to find out they got denied and wanted their money back. Since I would have both, I would be hard pressed to give a damn over their stupidity.

Sorry, I have no love for denied people wasting people's time.

[shadowofnight]

That is why the seller needs to specify a cancellation policy. I would make it rather stiff because you don't just get denied for any old reason. You might be put on delay for something stupid, but usually denials are for something you know you did or your license is suspended.

So if your cancellation policy is upfront and they know they lose their entire amount of money, then they might make sure they are legit. Personally, I would be pissed if I sold a gun and spent the person's money to find out they got denied and wanted their money back. Since I would have both, I would be hard pressed to give a damn over their stupidity.

Sorry, I have no love for denied people wasting people's time.

I agree, hell sometimes ( Well most of the time ) the money doesnt even make it back home with me after the PPT...it goes directly into another firearm purchase at the same shop.