PPT INFO STICKY

[FEDUPWBS]

After reading countless threads about dealers refusing to performing legal PPT I cannot take it any more.
Be advised I have made a request to the legal minds of CalGuns.net to put together a sticky. It would contain a download of ALL pertinent info, laws, and regs.. When we go to perform a legal PPT we are armed with knowledge and info. This will help educate the FFL of the actual law and cut throught the FUD he has been told by I.C. and ilk.
If they still refuse to perform a legal PPT after that, stand your ground and follow through with the authorities.
Am I on track with this? Are you willing to force the transfer and instigate the law if needed to further our cause? IMO this is the most logical step to proliferate the OLL cause.
Next step in this progession is dealers give up and start selling OLLs to get in on the profits they are losing and have been so scared of!
Comments?

[kermit315]

I think it sounds like a good idea. If you are looking for votes, count this as one vote for it.

[FortCourageArmory]

Why would you want to force an FFL to do something? All you're going to do is cause bad feelings. And as soon as your transaction is finished, expect to get tossed out. No one likes to be backed into a corner to do something. And if you think the dealer won't show you the door becasue they want to do more business with you, you have zero understanding of human nature and ego.

Just take your business elsewhere and hurt them in the wallet. That's the best hurt you can put on someone.

[FEDUPWBS]

Why would you want to force an FFL to do something? All you're going to do is cause bad feelings. And as soon as your transaction is finished, expect to get tossed out. No one likes to be backed into a corner to do something. And if you think the dealer won't show you the door becasue they want to do more business with you, you have zero understanding of human nature and ego.

Just take your business elsewhere and hurt them in the wallet. That's the best hurt you can put on someone.

Already doing that! But when you bend people over on an AR lower but then refuse to do a PPT on an NDS and I gotta drive 200 mi round 2X. Then your going to do the right thing cause its the law thats why!

[FortCourageArmory]

So it's just a revenge motive...... You've hurt and/or wronged me so I'm going to rub your nose in it. Wrapping it in "it's the law and the right thing to do" is like wrapping a load so bull feces in silk. At the center, it's still full of crap!!!

That's the entirely wrong approach to take. If you want to combat that, the economic approach is the best way to do it. Spread the word to all your shooting buddies that dealer XYZ is a slime and to not patronize him. The shooting community is small enough that this will work. Either the dealer will wake up and smell the coffee or go under. Your approach will NEVER get the desired results. Unless your desired result is a bitter and uncooperative FFL.

[socalguns]

So it's just a revenge motive...... You've hurt and/or wronged me so I'm going to rub your nose in it. Wrapping it in "it's the law and the right thing to do" is like wrapping a load so bull feces in silk. At the center, it's still full of crap!!!

That's the entirely wrong approach to take. If you want to combat that, the economic approach is the best way to do it. Spread the word to all your shooting buddies that dealer XYZ is a slime and to not patronize him. The shooting community is small enough that this will work. Either the dealer will wake up and smell the coffee or go under. Your approach will NEVER get the desired results. Unless your desired result is a bitter and uncooperative FFL.

Misdemeanors hurt a lot more than loss of patronage. Where is the honor in being a FFL and refusing to do your duty?

[radioactivelego]

Solution to stupid law and price ceiling: be a dick to gun stores.

[xAlpha]

Commies

FFLs do not exist for your charity.

[socalguns]

How is their MONOPOLY our charity?
Read the posting rules before you get banned.

[xAlpha]

They're a monopoly, now?

Weren't we talking about how you could just go to another FLL? If there are other FFLs, it isn't a monopoly.

People in the United States are capitalists. They're allowed to make money. Furthermore, they own their own businesses, and if they don't want to do business with you, that's their right. It might be stupid, because they're losing money, but it's their right.

[FortCourageArmory]

Misdemeanors hurt a lot more than loss of patronage. Where is the honor in being a FFL and refusing to do your duty?

Honor and duty? You make an FFL sound like a member of the military. That's a pretty silly analogy. And the whole "monopoly" angle is similarly ridiculous. If there were only one FFL for a given geographic region, I'd call it a monopoly. Having multiples means you, the consumer, have choices. Find one that will do business with you. There isn't one near you that will, you say....open your own store and do business like you like then.

[thefifthspeed]

I don't blame most FFLs especially individual owned stores. It only stands to reason that they would rather "play it safe" then be part of the pioneer movement of OLLs. It sucks for us individuals but with all the problems we have seen over the past few years it is understandable to a degree.

[Kestryll]

Okay, no offense to anyone but this is stupid.
This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, I'm just sick and tired of watching the destructive, useless infighting and it needs to stop or we're doomed.

How exactly are gun owners suppose to buy, sell, trade or do ANY sort of transfers without FFLs?

If it cost so much to do a transfer that no one does them or comes in how does an FFL expect to stay in business?

How are FFLs suppose to stay in business, make ANY sort of profit and be there to facilitate YOUR transfer if we run them out of business?

Everyone here bemoans the slow death of the firearms industry in California.
Everyone makes a major issue out of the declining number of FFLs in California.
And yet we want to HELP to kill off our hobby by alienating or closing down what few FFLs still exist!?!?

As for the FFLs, these are your CUSTOMERS, the people that keep you in business and put food on the table.
As heavily regulated, unnecessarily complicated and excessively overburdened with fees as the firearms buying process is do we need to make it more difficult?

Yes, FFLs NEED to make a profit, hear that customers, without that profit they go under and you buy, sell and trade NOTHING.
However if it cost so much to make that deal then the customers simply won't make those purchases or trades and then we all lose.

The point in this is that the relationship between the FFL and the gun owner is symbiotic, one can not fully exist without the other.
Face it people, one needs the other to have their firearms and one needs the other to have their job. It's that simple, you need each other.

Now why the hell are we trying to drive a wedge in between this two parties?
Doesn't that State make it difficult enough to buy, sell and trade on both ends?
Don't we have enough people trying to outlaw, ban or regulate out of existence BOTH of you?
Do you really want to make it that much easier to end it all for everyone?

We can not win this unless we all work together and remember that we are all ON THE SAME SIDE!!!

And yet every little faction is too busy trying to shove somebody else under the bus to realize that they will go with them!

I've said it before and I'll repeat it here, to hell with the Bradys, Allison, Iggy or anyone else, they're not a threat to us.
WE gun owners are the worst enemy that we have!
We're so willing to feed on our own that those other parties can just sit back and watch us implode.

As soon as we quit trying to 'win' amongst ourselves and start looking outward things will change, until then we are doomed to a slow death of self-destruction.

No, we won't sticky something this divisive, in fact it's done.