80% Lower build question

[Prc329]

I can't seem to find this info in my searching.

What exactly is meant by 80%. Does 80% mean if it took 100 minutes to complete a lower that 80 minutes has already been completed and we need to finish the final 20% or is it 80% of the operations to complete a lower and completed and we need to finish the final 20% and time is not involved?

Basically I am wondering about engraving. Would taking my 80% and having it engraved before I do any work on it cut into my 20% that I need to complete?

[JeffM]

Exactly where did you search?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=87321

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=86627

PS. 80% is an arbitrary amount that has not been clearly defined by the DOJ or ATF and has gotten some folks in trouble.

[Prc329]

That does answer my question. In my searching nothing came up specifically saying what the 80% was. All I saw was you needed to be the one doing the work once the 80% mark is completed. Nothing was specific in what the 80% was. I read threw what you posted as well as a very good explanation of building a firearm at home. nothing said what I was asking.







EDIT:Right after I posted my repy I found a post by bweise stating "THERE IS NO '80%' FACTOR CODIFIED IN FED LAW OR REGULATIONS."

So I need to be present and doing the engraving myself. So could I send the lower to be engraved after I finish the machining that remains?

[oaklander]

There is no such thing as 80 percent. It's just slang for things that the ATF does not "usually" consider to be guns.

That being said, there was a calgunner who got in trouble for having an 80 percent receiver for a certain "open bolt" SMG. He didn't have any other parts, AFAIK, but the ATF decided to make his life hell anyways.

So the moral of the story is that "80 percent" is fairly meaningless, and you need to be super careful when building from an 80 percent receiver.

ALSO - the federal laws regarding FA weapons and SBR's DO recognize "constructive possession" so for example, having an 80 percent lower and a short barrel upper (with the intent to build an AR pistol) could *still* get you into trouble. There's some talk that marking the lower as "pistol" shows sufficient intent to build a pistol (and not a rifle), but I would not completely trust my freedom to that.

Wish I could be more explicit, but the laws in this area are murky.

[leelaw]

Have the engraving done before you finish the >20% of the machining, then you won't have any issues of the engraver not being licensed, or something similar (though that shouldn't be an issue as long as you remain present with the firearm/less-than-firearm-receiver and they don't hold it overnight).

Engraving does not factor into the percentage of machining necessary to complete the less-than-firearm-receiver to a finished state.

[oaklander]

Or do it yourself.

Have the engraving done before you finish the >20% of the machining, then you won't have any issues of the engraver not being licensed, or something similar (though that shouldn't be an issue as long as you remain present with the firearm/less-than-firearm-receiver and they don't hold it overnight).

Engraving does not factor into the percentage of machining necessary to complete the less-than-firearm-receiver to a finished state.

[leelaw]

Or do it yourself.

Yeah, get yourself a dremel with engraving bit and a steady hand, otherwise that serial is gonna look like hell.

[oaklander]

Mine look like a first grader did them!

Eeek!

Yeah, get yourself a dremel with engraving bit and a steady hand, otherwise that serial is gonna look like hell.

[Prc329]

I think I will take the engravers advice and make sure I am present when it is done. Damn loks like I need to find more time that I don't have

[SVRider]

Since bare 1911 frames are a no-go in this state, I wonder if anyone has built up an "80%" frame into a 1911.....

Experiences???

[DesertGunner]

Since bare 1911 frames are a no-go in this state, I wonder if anyone has built up an "80%" frame into a 1911.....

Experiences???

There are 80% 1911 frames available here, among other places.

I've never built one myself. Before I do that, I have a standing bet with some friends that I can make a functioning 1911 out of a block of steel with nothing but my Dremel. I've been putting off actually starting the project....

[RANGER295]

You can pick up relatively in expensive engraving machines on E-Bay sometimes. I have a friend that bought one that I have used a couple of times. I am not sure if his does metal, but it is worth thinking about.