What makes a receiver a gun vs a X% receiver?

[alaokytrid]

Using the AR as an example, if I order an 80% receiver, i have to mill out some parts of it, then its considered a full receiver and i can build my own gun, yay!

So what defined that 80% as an 80%? Im assuming its that i couldnt just drop parts in, and a certain amount had to be milled/drilled/hacked/what ever before a working firearm could be made, but does it have to be original, untouched metal that blocks the parts from be assembled?

What if someone built a full lower, then put it in a tub filled with epoxy or cement, then shipped it to someone else... Now that person, just like with an 80% needs to mill/drill/hack/what ever that concrete or epoxy before they can make a working firearm.

I thought for a second, "well the receiver was already 100% before being put in cement, so its still a firearm." But on the other hand, is it? If you built a 100% then cut it in half and someone had to weld it together is it a 100% while cut in half? Melted down?

If some sort of physical process is required to make the firearm a firearm, then it wasnt a firearm before you complete that process, maybe?

[BigJ]

What makes an 80% an 80%? The BATFE, that's what. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you want to get into the biz of producing 80%ers the best thing you can do is contact the BATFE, work through the process and most likely send them a sample. You'll either get a letter kicking it back saying no-go, or you'll get a letter saying you're in good shape. Provide that good to go letter to your customer and you're golden.

Skip that whole process and guess at it, and you'll probably find yourself in jail.

[alaokytrid]

Not trying to get in a business, just curious.

[rromeo]

You can drop a finished receiver into cement and send it to the ATF tech office. They will give you a legal opinion.

[alaokytrid]

Or another example, what if you built a steel receiver, for a 1911 maybe, then surrounded it in liquid aluminum. Now the recipient would have to mill or melt the al away before having a gun.

[BigJ]

Not trying to get in a business, just curious.

Understood. But the answer still applies. What makes something a firearm, or not, is decided by the BATFE. No one else.

[dieselpower]

The BATFE considers an 80% to be 80% complete. They have sent out letters to suppliers telling them to back off a little on what to finish, like the fire control group pocket on an AR15. They like to see that remain for the person who finishes it.

They have mechanist actually work on the lowers from 0% forging to completion and they break it down into steps. Each step is then given a skill set number which equals a %. So drilling the Trigger and Hammer pin holes is 1% each, while drilling out the fire control group pocket is worth 10%. When the lower requires more then 20% to complete, its called a 80% lower.

You must have less than 20% remaining to be considered a firearm... many people forget that fact. You drill ONE MORE HOLE IN THE 80% AND ITS NOW A FIREARM, SINCE ITS NOW 81% COMPLETED.

[CHS]

Sorry Dieselpower, but you're not exactly accurate. "80%" is nothing more than a marketing term. That's it. That's all it is. It has nothing to do with finishing 20% of the work.

The BATFE, based on a set of secret internal decisions, will make a determination whether a lump of metal is a receiver or not. If they determine that a given lump of metal is not a receiver, it can then be sold as a regular non-controlled item. If the seller decides to call it an 80% receiver, he can. Or 60%, or 95%. It doesn't matter.

All that matters is the BATFE making the determination that the lump of metal in question is or is not a receiver. Some incomplete receivers are still considered receivers by the BATFE and would still require transfer through an FFL, even if still they need holes drilled or pockets milled.

[dieselpower]

Sorry Dieselpower, but you're not exactly accurate. "80%" is nothing more than a marketing term. That's it. That's all it is. It has nothing to do with finishing 20% of the work.

The BATFE, based on a set of secret internal decisions, will make a determination whether a lump of metal is a receiver or not. If they determine that a given lump of metal is not a receiver, it can then be sold as a regular non-controlled item. If the seller decides to call it an 80% receiver, he can. Or 60%, or 95%. It doesn't matter.

All that matters is the BATFE making the determination that the lump of metal in question is or is not a receiver. Some incomplete receivers are still considered receivers by the BATFE and would still require transfer through an FFL, even if still they need holes drilled or pockets milled.

sorta what I said... I didnt realize they didnt create a formula, since I remember seeing the formula on AR15 long ago. I do know, and did post that, drilling one more hole in the "80%" designates that as a firearm.

Thanks for that bit of knowledge. I had no idea.

[CHS]

sorta what I said... I didnt realize they didnt create a formula, since I remember seeing the formula on AR15 long ago. I do know, and did post that, drilling one more hole in the "80%" designates that as a firearm.

Thanks for that bit of knowledge. I had no idea.

More importantly, partially finished receivers that the BATFE has determined weren't firearms several years ago are now considered firearms in that form. They have pushed the goal posts back, to borrow a term. And they've done that several times. For AR15's, they used to have no problem with fire control holes drilled, as long as the pocket was missing. Then they said that wasn't ok. Then it was ok to mark the holes. Then it wasn't.

Basically: BATFE determines whether it's a receiver or not.
Marketing determines whether it's an X% receiver or not.