PKMs?

[AK all day]

Anybody ever build one/own one?

Even a display with a dummy reciver? I'm seriously interested but it seems like a scary world. :P

[C.W.M.V.]

Ive got some trigger time on the PKM.
Liked it a LOT better than the 240B.
Weighed near what a SAW did, but ran a LOT of 54R REALLY fast!

If you can do it don't post about it, DO IT!!!

[ClarenceBoddicker]

A semi-auto build would be tough, as you would have to build a sample one & send it to ATF tech branch to get your semi-auto only closed bolt design approved. If ATF decides your semi-auto design is in fact a machine gun, they will keep your sample gun. Even if you are only building a non shooting dummy gun it would be wise to get the design approved by ATF. A non ATF approved dummy receiver made from demilled receiver parts could be ruled as a machine gun itself. Check out the stuff that Steve Mathews does & writes about in Shotgun News articles.

A commercially made semi-auto would be very expensive due to limited demand. Most gun owners won't know what a PKM even is. 922R would drive up the cost for the same reason. A CA legal semi-auto PKM would tough due to SB-23 & being belt fed.

[AK all day]

VLTOR has ATF approved semi-auto recievers, would that be possible? Cost is an issue, but I'm willing to put out quite a bit once I save my pennies. What exactly is SB-23? Thanks

[m03]

A commercially made semi-auto would be very expensive due to limited demand. Most gun owners won't know what a PKM even is. 922R would drive up the cost for the same reason. A CA legal semi-auto PKM would tough due to SB-23 & being belt fed.

Commercial PKMs have been in existence for about 7 years already. One of the more reliable belt-fed semi-autos from my understanding.

Be prepared to spend lots of money if you really want to build or buy one. Last I checked, complete semis sold in the $8k+ range.

[AK all day]

I am willing to spend the cash, but how hard exactly are they to obtain? Will I be searching for days, years, months? What can I really expect. Sorry if my questions are far fetched or difficult to answer. What is the legality of just owning the gun alone with no belts? Maybe 10 round belts?

[ClarenceBoddicker]

VLTOR has ATF approved semi-auto recievers, would that be possible? Cost is an issue, but I'm willing to put out quite a bit once I save my pennies. What exactly is SB-23? Thanks

The receiver is the hear of the gun & having an ATF approved semi-auto design is most of the hard work. Does the receiver come with the bolt/FCG or mod parts/blue prints? Cheap & exocit almost never work together. You may be able to get some info about their design & copy it. It's usually cheaper to weld up some demilled receivers, then mill your own. A PKM parts kit should be easy to find, the barrel will be hard due to the W Bush 2005 barrel import ban. SB-23 is the 1999 CA expansion of the 1989 Roberti-Roos AWB. 1989 banned names & 1999 banned features. You only can have 1 feature such as a pistol grip or a detachable magazine. Belt fed is considered a detachable magazine in CA. I'm in the same boat with my MG-42s. You will have to decide to run a fixed 10 rd belt feed lock device like a blocked can with a latch that needs a tool to open, or get rid of other features like the pistol grip & flashhider.

I am willing to spend the cash, but how hard exactly are they to obtain? Will I be searching for days, years, months? What can I really expect. Sorry if my questions are far fetched or difficult to answer. What is the legality of just owning the gun alone with no belts? Maybe 10 round belts?

It will take some work to find an FFL to accept the receiver & AFAIK it will need some type of mag/belt feed lock before it enters CA. A lot of out of state dealers & manufactures will not ship guns or receivers to CA even if they are fully legal here. Some wont ship bolt action rifles, even pre 1899 antiques. A lot of people hate CA & punish us that way. Once you get a receiver in CA, HW Bush's 922R will be a big issue, unless someone makes the parts you need in the US. The CA SB-23 issue is not so much the belts, even though you can't legally import any that have more than 10rds in CA post 1999, it's a weapons ability or capacity to accept a detachable feeding device. A mag/feed lock avoids that issue. You can legally own something like a semi-auto PKM in CA, as long as you follow SB-23. You have to chose between a detachable mag or belt (even if you don't have a mag or belt installed or even own the mags or belts), or features such as pistol grips. Most people chose features over 10+ rounds, if they don't own pre 2000 SB-23 ban mags & belts. Check out the AWB flowchart. LE does not like to see CA citizens with high cap mags & automatically assume that they are illegal post 2000 imported ones.

[AK all day]

Wow, it seems my assumption that it was a scary world has some truth to it. Okay, are the magazine/belt locks available for sale, or is something you have to make yourself? Can you have a pistol Grip and muzzle break on the rifle if it has a locked belt?

I don't know a whole lot about what it is Exaclty that VLTOR offers, but they DID sell complete guns in 2007 which are now out of stock. They were asking around 6,000 for a package that I wish was still available. Can you buy a reciever that is complete without it being 922r compliant? I would be interested in re-welding then milling my own, but I dont currently have access to tools that can do this, nor do I think I am capable. How difficult is it? Thanks again,

[ClarenceBoddicker]

Wow, it seems my assumption that it was a scary world has some truth to it. Okay, are the magazine/belt locks available for sale, or is something you have to make yourself? Can you have a pistol Grip and muzzle break on the rifle if it has a locked belt?

I don't know a whole lot about what it is Exaclty that VLTOR offers, but they DID sell complete guns in 2007 which are now out of stock. They were asking around 6,000 for a package that I wish was still available. Can you buy a reciever that is complete without it being 922r compliant? I would be interested in re-welding then milling my own, but I dont currently have access to tools that can do this, nor do I think I am capable. How difficult is it? Thanks again,

I wouldn't think a PKM mag/belt lock would be commercially made, due to zero demand. Yes, you can make them yourself. If you run a locked 10rd mag/belt feed, you can have all the features you want as long as you are over 31" OAL. A muzzle break is not an issue in CA. A problem is defining exactly what a flashhider or muzzle break is. CA DOJ or a jury gets to decide.

If they sold complete guns, they should have the 922R parts you need. Check on Gun Broker for a used or unfired one for sale. Expect to pay more though. A bare receiver is not subject to 922R, only the complete gun. Bare receivers are subject to SB-23 though. TIG welding is very easy & fun. See if they have a class at a JC close by. Some receivers are easy to weld like a BREN, but others like an M-1 Garand or M-14 not so easy due to thinness & heat treating. You can buy some demiiled AK milled receivers from APEX for cheap to practice on. Warning you can't just weld them back together as is without making a new illegal machine gun. You have to remove the machine gun features from the receiver scrap sections like the 3rd hole & slot in the rail before doing any welding. A bare machine gun receiver is a machine gun under Federal & CA law. Welding is all about proper aliment/fixture of the parts, weld penetration & factoring in shrinkage. Some receivers are heat treated & would need to be annealed & re-heat treated after welding. A semi-auto will put far less stress on a receiver then a full auto. Almost anything can be rewelded with a good welder & some skill/practice. Many post 1968 transferable foreign machine guns that were not converted semi-autos were made from DEWATS or welded up machine gun parts kits.

[ptoguy2002]

Clarence is such a downer.
Vltor made semi receivers which were built into complete guns by wise-lite / Malcomer. They ran for between 4-6K when they had them, they are now sold out, and going for 8-10K on gunbroker. You can / could buy a semi Vltor receiver, which are very nice, and have the semi mods: sear block, catch block, and over sized right side rail. These are not all the mods that need to be done to be legal though. Bolt mod and bolt carrier mods are needed to convert it to a legal semi, and then either a hammer fire system or a striker fire system. If you home build, do all the proper semi mods (which are pretty well known and understood what they need to be), and use a hammer fire system, it is pretty low risk, IMHO, to have issues with it not being a legit semi.
Personally, I think a hammer fire system is the way to go anyway, as you wouldn't need the goofy tube through the stock like wise-lite / Malcomer did.
There are also 80% receivers on the market, made by no less than 3 people at this point, IIRC, two are currently available (Prexis stopped making theirs).
Weaponsguild has a forum for doing PKT / PKM builds.
922R is easy because you don't have a mag, and any FCG parts will likely be made in the US anyway.
PKM kits are pricey these days, but Apex sells a PKT kit, which would be pretty straight forward to convert to spade grips. Take the flash hider off, and you have a featureless gun. If you wanted a PKM in Cali, take the flash hider off, and unscrew the pistol grip. Batwing it or use a monsterman. Pretty easy.

[AK all day]

Thank you for the info. Would you personally reccomend I attempt to build one, or just simply buy one somewhere? Would there be a significant price difference between the two when all is said and done? My mechanical skills are "oh so slow" haha, but I would love to inprove. Thanks again.

[AK all day]

https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/80/products_id/916

With this, what would need to be done in order to produce a functioning legal firearm? What would the cost be on top of the kits cost? Thanks again.

[timdps]

Not strictly on topic, but that PKT kit at Apex does not appear to be a rifle (its not designed to be fired from the shoulder), so if left in that configuration and used on a tripod, it would be exempt from CA assault weapon laws.

That said, that kit has a demilled (drilled) barrel so you will need to find a live barrel, you will be limited to 10 round belts and its going to be a very complex build requiring serious mechanical skills.

[AK all day]

What complex building would be involved?

[ptoguy2002]

The actual assembly of the parts onto the receiver is just like an AK with rivets, but bigger and more parts. The front and rear trunnions get riveted in, but you also have to rivet in the feed arm mounts, the ejector, and the belt box bracket. There aren't any 'make it easy' tools like there are with AK's with the AK-Builder products. You've also got an more stuff to make sure are all lined up correctly before you rivet.
Before you can even rivet, you need to do the semi mods, which includes mill work on the bolt carrier, and welding on the bolt.
But before you can do that, you need to figure out what you want to use for a FCG. There is no commercial solution for this that I am aware of (not yet anyway).