Saiga 12 and "high capacity" magazines

[Dantedamean]

Ok so I did a few google searches, I found a few threads that touched on this subject but nothing really in depth.

This isn't about the legality of possession/coming into possession of the mags, it's strictly about use with a saiga 12.

Lets say I have a 20 round drum. Can I use that drum on my saiga 12? Are there restrictions such as no pistol grip and such?

[morfeeis]

if you have a BB on it no you cant use the drum.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

[Simply115]

Since Saigas always need a BB no matter what, you can never use 20 rounds drums with it.

[Quiet]

if you have a BB on it no you cant use the drum.
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

Yes, you can.

Since Saigas always need a BB no matter what, you can never use 20 rounds drums with it.

Part in bold is incorrect.


Shotgun assault weapon laws are different than handgun assault weapon laws and rifle assault weapon laws.

Under rifle assault weapon laws...
Semi-auto centerfire rifles can not have a fixed magazine capacity of greater than 10 rounds. [PC 30515(a)(2)]

Under handgun assault weapon laws...
Semi-auto pistols can not have a fixed magazine capacity of greater than 10 rounds. [PC 30515(a)(5)]

Under shotgun assault weapon laws...
There is no fixed magazine capacity restriction for shotguns.
Therefore, the only thing applies is the large capacity magazine laws.

Large capacity magazine laws prohibits the importation/manufacture/sale of large capacity magazines to non-exempt persons after 12-31-1999.

No large capacity Saiga-12 magazines existed before 2005.

Therefore, an exempt person (such as a LEO) can legally obtain a large capacity Saiga-12 magazine and use it in a maglocked Saiga-12.


Bottom line:
If you legally own a large capacity Saiga-12 magazine, then you can legally use it on a maglocked Saiga-12 to create a fixed large capacity magazine semi-auto shotgun.



Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

[Dantedamean]

if you have a BB on it no you cant use the drum.
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

No where on the flow chart does it talk about high cap mags. I looked. The bullet button has nothing to do with the use of high cap mags. It's the features that require the bullet button. Also, as far as I know, that is with rifles not shot guns.

Edit: thanks quiet. The exact info I was looking for.

[ke6guj]

No large capacity Saiga-12 magazines existed before 2005.

Therefore, an exempt person (such as a LEO) can legally obtain a large capacity Saiga-12 magazine and use it in a maglocked Saiga-12.


Bottom line:
If you legally own a large capacity Saiga-12 magazine, then you can legally use it on a maglocked Saiga-12 to create a fixed large capacity magazine semi-auto shotgun.

[CHS]

The magazine size restrictions for bullet-buttoned firearms ONLY apply to rifles and pistols.

Since the legislature never thought there would be "high capacity" shotgun magazines (since shotgun rounds are so huge), they never bothered to put it in the Shotgun Assault Weapons regulations.

[Dantedamean]

Ok so I was talking to my friend about this today and he brought up a good question.

This is kind of off topic, so tube magazines... My benelli can hold 7 2 3/4 inch shells. I did the math one day that's like 12-14 1 inch shells. I realize putting 1" shells in the tube would be illegal. But why? It's not really manufacturing because the magazine is already made.

This may be a grey area, I don't know. If it is I sure don't want to be the test case. Does anyone know of any ATF letters that elaborate on this? Maybe a court ruling?

[Quiet]

Ok so I was talking to my friend about this today and he brought up a good question.

This is kind of off topic, so tube magazines... My benelli can hold 7 2 3/4 inch shells. I did the math one day that's like 12-14 1 inch shells. I realize putting 1" shells in the tube would be illegal. But why? It's not really manufacturing because the magazine is already made.

This may be a grey area, I don't know. If it is I sure don't want to be the test case. Does anyone know of any ATF letters that elaborate on this? Maybe a court ruling?

In determining ammo capacity of tubular magazines, CA DOJ BOF uses the same shell length that the shotgun manufacturer uses.

So, if your Benelli is marketed as holding seven 2.75" shells, then they will measure using 2.75" shells.

So, using shorter shells is not illegal.

[Dantedamean]

In determining ammo capacity of tubular magazines, CA DOJ BOF uses the same shell length that the shotgun manufacturer uses.

So, if your Benelli is marketed as holding seven 2.75" shells, then they will measure using 2.75" shells.

So, using shorter shells is not illegal.

Interesting. I've read a thousand times on calguns that "if you put smaller rounds in your tube mag and it hold more than 10 it's illegal." I never saw anyone correct those people so I figured it was correct.

[Quiet]

Interesting. I've read a thousand times on calguns that "if you put smaller rounds in your tube mag and it hold more than 10 it's illegal." I never saw anyone correct those people so I figured it was correct.

Previous threads.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=343630&highlight=capacity

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=414820&highlight=capacity

[Dantedamean]

Previous threads.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=343630&highlight=capacity

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=capacity

Awesome. Those are good links. Thanks for the info.

[CHS]

Interesting. I've read a thousand times on calguns that "if you put smaller rounds in your tube mag and it hold more than 10 it's illegal." I never saw anyone correct those people so I figured it was correct.

It is never illegal to put more of one cartridge than the magazine of another cartridge is designed to hold.

For example, many 10rd .40 magazines can hold and even feed more than 10 rounds of 9mm. If you have a 9mm firearm and purchase .40 magazines and do not modify them in any way and they feed and function in your 9mm with more than 10rds, that is perfectly legal.

This is a ten round magazine that also happens to hold and feed 30rd's of 5.56: