CCW tactics? Stockton man killed.

[SuperSet]

Hoping to hear more details about this so something can be learned. My guess is that these punks picked out someone who looked like they would be easy pickings. Sad story, RIP.

[k1dude]

What's a "2?" A gang?

[Lone_Gunman]

What's a "2?" A gang?

Yeah' I'm wondering this too.

[Supertac916]

I heard the ER's are packed with gunshot and stab victims daily. As you said the vast majority of them are gangbangers and scum, but there's always the innocent like Mr. Pina who end up being victims.

I have several physician friends out in Stockton and they wish they could just let the gangbangers and scum bleed out. Unfortunately, they have an oath to do everything in their ability to save them. Then support them while they sit in our justice system.

One of my anesthesiologist buddies said that when he served in the US Army and saved his fellow soldiers from gunshot wounds it was honorable to save a fallen brother. After coming back to the states 90% of the GSW victims are gangbangers, thugs, etc. He gets sick to his stomach, when he has to try and help save a guy who killed innocent people or LEO's. However, it's his sworn oath and duty to help save these thugs. I couldn't do it because I might forget to give them the anesthetic before surgery

[not-fishing]

A gun is a tool and it's effectiveness is totally dependent on how effectively you have trained yourself so that you have muscle memory for a smooth fast draw where you can draw your gun and hit multiple targets quickly.

The average fast human reaction time is roughly .75 seconds, so if you are carrying, you need to get your fast draw down to .5 seconds.

Nicki

My draw and fire time runs around 1.25 seconds from the timer beep with an OWB Kydex holster and shooters vest. (S&W N frame)

I know in street clothes with an IWB leather holster behind the hip I'd probably add 0.5 seconds to that - and that's if I'm wearing a sport coat for concealment or a loose outside the belt shirt. (S&W L frame)

That's why I don't wear gold or rings.

[Falstaff]

What's a "2?" A gang?

Pretty much.... Stockton PD uses a number code for racial identification.
Every single gold chain 211 has been committed by a number 2...100%
(who else slugs old ladies in the jaw knocks them down and rips necklaces off them in broad daylight?)
You can guess what #2's are but I'll give you a hint: it's not Eskimo...

[POLICESTATE]

Yes, and I don't carry it out in the open but in a pocket, and I don't always take it out and fiddle with it. Also the case is a black case that matches my clothing. All pretty low profile.

Not to mention I am an avid practitioner of avoidance tactics. I don't go into areas where the risk is much higher, I also keep an eye on my surroundings and other people in it. If things look shady I look to leave, or at least make sure I have an exit available should one become necessary.

BTW, what is a misdemeanor 187? homicide is a felony, or have things changed in California recently in the interests of social justice (murdering someone more affluent than you only a misdemeanor or something)?

[the86d]

Let them have what they want, if they turn to leave you alone, they must be after someone else, and you might feel the next person's life is in jeopardy... AND they are armed...

[Kukuforguns]

The average fast human reaction time is roughly .75 seconds, so if you are carrying, you need to get your fast draw down to .5 seconds.

Average reaction time for young adults is roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of .75 seconds (i.e., slightly less than 1/5 of a second). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry The fastest recorded fast draw is .208 seconds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Draw Thus, even the world's fastest gunslinger, openly carrying a weapon in a speed draw holster stands a very good chance of being shot before his/her gun bears on target. The only way you are going to beat a bad-guy to the shot is if you already have your gun in hand or if the bad-guy's attention is not on you. In this situation, the victim had no reasonable chance of beating the bad-guys. There was no good option for the victim here. He chose one of his very few options. I grieve for his family and hope for justice.

[railgunner]

Revolver (LCR) in pocket don't even need to take it out. My nephew (Iraq Vet) advised me to go the revolver route and carry it in sweatshirt or jacket pocket. If you see a possible problem you already have your finger on the trigger. Better to have a hole in your pocket than a hole in you.

[SilverTauron]

I'M sorry to see this. Unfortunately he was probably dead the moment the bad guys got the drop on him. Even if he complied, they would likely have shot him dead the moment they searched him & found the pistol.

This outcome is why you need to maintain situational awareness of your surroundings.Better to see a threat and keep your strong side hand ready to draw than it is to wait and get shot before making a move.

Note carefully that a bad guy intent on harm doesn't have to let you live to rob you. They can very well shoot you first and then take your money/wallet/stuff off your bleeding body.

[myk]

And it's situations like these that make me question the logic behind people who don't want civilians to legally carry weapons. I don't know about you guys, but I'd think twice about robbing, raping, killing, or whatever, if I knew there was a chance that my victim MAY have the ability to blow my head off...

[elSquid]

If the perp's have the drop on you, what is your tactical recourse? Or is there any? If you suspect they are going to kill you anyway regardless of your compliance, of course you have to try to draw and shoot. But when? If you think they aren't going to kill you, do you simply comply and hope for the best?

Yup. Hand over the chain and wallet. Hopefully they take them and leave.

If I think I'm going to get shot it's a different story. If I am in the process of being shot, then that too is a different story!

I don't know what happened in this case, but your comments raise the issue of mindset in situations where you are about to get shot/or are being shot.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-peter-soulis-inci

...reinforces an interesting point: if you are shot with a handgun, and you are not immediately incapacitated - draw and fight. It ain't over until it's over, so don't give up early.

Handguns are relatively low powered, and motivated people can take a lot of punishment. Being shot probably won't physically disable you and it isn't an automatic death sentence. Speaking generally, statistics seem to indicate that the overwhelming majority of those shot survive.

Just something to keep in mind.

RIP, Mr Pina.

-- Michael

[Wallabing]

There's no such thing as a "good" part of Stockton.

Even in the 8 mile neighborhood. Thugs are everywhere.

[Powerkraut]

This is why everywhere needs SD laws comperable to TX. Lethal force is justified to stop a felon from fleeing the scene of their crime, give em the wallet then drop them when they run away. Make the other *******s think twice before trying to pull this crap on someone else.