UK troops running out of machine guns...

[paradox]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/07/warmy207.xml

Troops 'are running out of machine guns'

By Richard Savill
Last Updated: 2:34am GMT 07/02/2008

The Army is running out of machine guns, according to a leaked report which said stocks were "very fragile".

The report said the Army "desperately" needed 400 of the jumbo 0.5in calibre heavy machine guns, and had run out of the 7.62 GPMG and Minimis.

The shortage is affecting training and is unlikely to be resolved until June.

The supply of machine guns has collapsed partly because of a dispute with the manufacturers, Manroy, which also provides weapons to Saudi Arabia.

The leaked report was prepared for the Army's command centre in Wilton, Wilts.

It said the Ministry of Defence had been "urged to prevent Manroy delivering Saudi weapons ahead of our requirement".

The report said generals had asked the US to transfer 400 guns to Britain but the request was rejected by the Pentagon.

"MoD-level engagement is needed to try and get them released," the report said.

It added: "The original spares package was inadequate and usage has been far above that expected. As a result, stocks are very fragile."

Patrick Mercer, a Conservative MP and former infantry commander, said: "For the foreseeable future there are going to be difficult and dangerous conflicts that will require the full panoply of conventional warfare weaponry and resources.

"This (shortage) is symptomatic of a complete unwillingness by the Ministry of Defence to accept that fact."

He added: "The MoD only seems to get a grip of things when the problem is upon them. It must have been clear months ago that the machine gun stock was either wearing out or was simply inadequate.

"I would urge the MoD to come clean about the shortage of weaponry and manpower and to rectify it."

Last night, the MoD said in a statement: "We have enough weapons and the right range of them for operations. We recognised a need to increase overall supply, and took steps to address this.

"In December we took delivery of over 200 light machine guns with more due shortly, and have agreed with the manufacturer of the heavy machine gun that they will up production to meet our orders."

[StupidMoFo]

Wow, not good. This combined with 40% of our US f15 fleet broken is not a good thing(http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/10/f15....ap/index.html)

[mooster]

If Manroy Engineering can't churn out enough L7's, I would have thought they would have gone to FN Herstal. I guess they are focusing on getting guns in hand immediately as opposed to getting guns on order.

I not surprised that the Pentagon didn't transfer guns over to Britian - we don't have any "extra". I do know that the stateside M240 manufacturers (only 2) are absolutely swamped trying to fill US orders. I recently placed an order for several M240s and I don't get them till fall.

[Stormfeather]

Wow, not good. This combined with 40% of our US f15 fleet broken is not a good thing(http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/10/f15....ap/index.html)

The BRITISH dont have enough guns, not us. . we've got plenty!

[Stormfeather]

I recently placed an order for several M240s and I don't get them till fall.

Ok, I will play. . . . How do you plan on dros'ing them? Are they limited by the one gun every 30 days rule? Can you private party me one? I have cash on hand btw. Hows things over at Livemore labs going?

[daskraut]

If they need machine guns, there is this place in Iraq that has mountains of them and ammo too. Get practical!.

[smle-man]

If Manroy Engineering can't churn out enough L7's, I would have thought they would have gone to FN Herstal. I guess they are focusing on getting guns in hand immediately as opposed to getting guns on order.

I not surprised that the Pentagon didn't transfer guns over to Britian - we don't have any "extra". I do know that the stateside M240 manufacturers (only 2) are absolutely swamped trying to fill US orders. I recently placed an order for several M240s and I don't get them till fall.

My son's unit in Iraq was short on M240s due to the number destroyed in combat. They were reduced to mounting M249s in the turret of the Humvees for a couple months. We could send the Brits a bunch of M60s if they would like. The Brits shouldn't have torched all of those L4 7.62mm Bren guns.

[mooster]

Ok, I will play. . . . How do you plan on dros'ing them? Are they limited by the one gun every 30 days rule? Can you private party me one? I have cash on hand btw. Hows things over at Livemore labs going?

I'm not with LLNL. I don't know if they even have M240s. For sure M4's and the miniguns.

I'm with BAE Systems - home of the Bradley, M113, AAV and now the FCS ICV. I don't know all the legal-ese of the order as I'm just the ordering engineer. I just placed it thru our purchasing group and our FFL. He contacted our firearms license lawyer, started his paperwork/ATF voodoo and the order went thru. As long as the guns make it into my hands (legally!) for my tests next year, I don't really monitor the specific ordering process. If I knew the whole process, I would be bugging management to get me an FFL

Hmmm. If you have cash on-hand give Ohio Ordinance a call. They are spinning up a batch of semi-auto M240B's. The 1st 10 of 40 are sold and the next batch of 10 are being fabbed. Cost is about $14k and you'll have to modify the feed cover with a time+tool feature to stay clear of the AW laws.

[MrTenX]

Interesting.
I worked at FNMI in Columbia, SC 91-97 primarily in M240 Assembly.
I ran the breech bolt line doing the final machining and assembly of the M240 breech bolt/locking lever.
The M240 is very labor intensive and at that time no CNC equipment was used in the manufacturing process. It was all done on old (very) conventional machines and lots of hand work.
Nonetheless, the best they could do with wide open production was only 80 guns a month.

[cartman]

Its karma.

[Addax]

This is a result of a stretched economy trying to support very Socialist Programs vs. the Defense/Military needs of the UK...

This could very well happen here in the US, if Hillary or Obama are elected..., they will push (along with a Democratic Congress) to divert funds from Defense Manufacturing and Research Programs, and of course the War in Iraq to pay for programs like Universal Health Care, and to pay for the Mortgage Crisis (which won't end up helping everyone affected)...

[psriley]

They should borrow some from France on extended loan. Brand new, never been fired. Might have to pick the baguettes out of the barrels.

[aileron]

And to think during World War II us Americans sent guns over to them. But not now, we cant have them, so we cant send our spares.

Can you imagine that, spares?

[Stanze]

They should borrow some from France on extended loan. Brand new, never been fired. Might have to pick the baguettes out of the barrels.

Only dropped once.

[gazzavc]

Believe me guys, they have plenty of L4 series LMG's in second line stores.
All through the 70's the L4 series were being phased out to be kept in reserve armories. The only downside to the L4 is that they are magazine fed and are in 7.62x51 which will complicate the difficult supply situation already in place.

Personally i'd love to see them use the old L4 Brens again.

They were the bollocks !!

Gaz