Flowchart (error) discussion

[Vin496]

I would rather not post my find here in case I am wrong in which case I may be admitting to something.

So the point of this thread is....?

Really, WTF?

You would not have been admitting anything, it would have been an observation, now that you posted you would be admitting something, well now you just outed yourself for no reason.

Just because I know it's illegal to make a semi auto Ar into a full auto, doesn't mean I have done it.

[mud99]

Here are a few types of guns which might poke holes into the rifle flowchart.

-Rifle without a stock, spade grips, etc. would be considered legal per flowchart.
-Rifle which fires from an open bolt would be considered legal per flowchart.
-FA rifle might be considered legal per flowchart as it could be said that it is not semi-automatic.
-Rifle with defaced serial numbers might be considered legal per flowchart as it is outside the scope.
-As I mentioned, a rifle assembled with too many import parts per 922(r)
-A rifle chambered in > .60 caliber

It isn't that the flow chart is wrong, and it is a valuable tool, but their are certain firearms which have features outside the scope of the flowchart.

The flow chart states that certain firearms are "legal" whereas it may be more accurate to say that they are not illegal within the scope of the AWB.

my flowcharts (pistol and shotgun) do cover AOWs (the pistol flowchart could use an amendment to cover the non-AOW VFG'ed AR "pistols") but since there is an ATF letter that states that they are legal, it isn't a big deal that the flowchart hasn't been updated to cover that. It isn't like it is the flowchart says it is legal when it really isn't.

And as for 922r, the flowcharts deal with the legality of the firearm as it sits there in fron of you.

[Merc1138]

Here are a few types of guns which might poke holes into the rifle flowchart.

-Rifle without a stock, spade grips, etc. would be considered legal per flowchart.

Yes. People have them in CA, they aren't really rifles. EBR sells 1919a4's and M2s. You can apparently even get one in .50bmg, because it's not a rifle.

-Rifle which fires from an open bolt would be considered legal per flowchart.

The flowchart doesn't ask anything about closed or open bolt. Why would an open bolt rifle be illegal? It's not in the PC.

-FA rifle might be considered legal per flowchart as it could be said that it is not semi-automatic.

Because the flowchart is for semi-auto rifles. FA is covered pretty clearly in the PC(you can't get one without that dangerous weapons permit that's impossible to get, unless you're an FFL).

-Rifle with defaced serial numbers might be considered legal per flowchart as it is outside the scope.

Isn't that also covered pretty plainly in the PC? Besides, not all rifles ever had serial numbers, nor are all rifles required to.

-As I mentioned, a rifle assembled with too many import parts per 922(r)

There are plenty of guides on 922(r), that's a federal thing that isn't part of any CA penal code.

-A rifle chambered in > .60 caliber

Bombs aren't in the flow chart either. The PC regarding destructive devices isn't a maze like it is for a basic semi auto rifle like an AR-15 or AK47.

It isn't that the flow chart is wrong, and it is a valuable toole, but their are certain firearms which have features outside the scope of the flowchart.

The flow chart states that certain firearms are "legal" whereas it may be more accurate to say that they are not illegal within the scope of the AWB.

The flow chart is only a guide for navigating a specific set of laws.

[CSACANNONEER]

Here are a few types of guns which might poke holes into the rifle flowchart.

-Rifle without a stock, spade grips, etc. would be considered legal per flowchart.

Not in a configuration which is designed to be fired from the shoulder so, not a "rifle"

-Rifle which fires from an open bolt would be considered legal per flowchart.

There are many open bolt semi auto rifles that are legal. What's your point again?

-FA rifle might be considered legal per flowchart as it could be said that it is not semi-automatic.

A FA firearm can be legal in CA. Also, since the flowchart is specifically intended to identify Ca AWs, a FA or even a select fire firearm, by Ca's definition can not be an AW. The flow chart addresses FA by the simple fact that they are not "semi automatic".

-Rifle with defaced serial numbers might be considered legal per flowchart as it is outside the scope.

The flow charts are designed and intended to be used to help understand Ca AW laws. They do not address all laws concerning firearms.

-As I mentioned, a rifle assembled with too many import parts per 922(r)

Have you ever read 922(r)? It is only illegal to assemble a firearm which would be unimportable. The person who assembles such a firearm has broken the law. However, it is not illegal to own, buy or sell firearms which are not 9322(r) compliant. Again, this has NOTHING to do with Ca Aw laws.

-A rifle chambered in > .60 caliber

Again, this has NOTHING to do with Ca AW laws and can be 100% legal in CA.

It isn't that the flow chart is wrong, and it is a valuable tool, but their are certain firearms which have features outside the scope of the flowchart.

The flow chart states that certain firearms are "legal" whereas it may be more accurate to say that they are not illegal within the scope of the AWB.

!

[Librarian]

Merc1138 and CSACANNONEER have made the correct point, I think. The flow charts were conceived and prepared as descriptive tools to understand the CA 'assault weapon' law and a little bit of other CA law.

It's somewhat like saying 'this Reed and Barton screwdriver doesn't work right with these Torx screws' - still good for its design, doesn't meet a current need.

The current problem seems to be an order of operation, consideration of different parts of the law thing.

winnre, without the backstory, would you post the detail? I think we need collective wisdom here - it's how we got the originals done.

[Merc1138]

Nachos. The point is nachos.

Merc1138 and CSACANNONEER have made the correct point, I think. The flow charts were conceived and prepared as descriptive tools to understand the CA 'assault weapon' law and a little bit of other CA law.

It's somewhat like saying 'this Reed and Barton screwdriver doesn't work right with these Torx screws' - still good for its design, doesn't meet a current need.

The current problem seems to be an order of operation, consideration of different parts of the law thing.

winnre, without the backstory, would you post the detail? I think we need collective wisdom here - it's how we got the originals done.

So I was right after all.

But seriously, I'd like to see what the possible issue is out of curiosity. It seems most of the time that people get confused about the flow-chart it's because they either go through it out of order, or fail to realize that it doesn't cover every state/federal gun law we have to put up with. If the flow chart is missing something related to CA's AW laws, considering how comprehensive it is, it's possible you might have stumbled upon some previously unrealized idea that could benefit people(if not, then it should be easy to have a discussion about theories without anyone managing to incriminate themselves.) with the difference being between "hey guys, I have a xxxxx" and "hey guys, I want to build a xxxxx"

[Librarian]

Bacon now has its own thread - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=581777

Too funny to delete.

But let's leave this one for actual flowchart discussion, now that there is some.

[mrlonewolf]

I'm agree.

Any feedback/discussion is highly appreciated.

[760knox]

[stix213]

Bacon now has its own thread - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=581777

Too funny to delete.

But let's leave this one for actual flowchart discussion, now that there is some.

Bacon is gone and the thread dies.... coincidence?

Still really curious about the supposed issue with the chart. Wish the OP would stop playing secret squirrel.

[1911su16b870]

pm any mod (i.e. Librarian) with your question on the flowchart, I am sure they will kindly and gently give you the facts or get it straightened out.

[forgiven]

[Librarian]

pm any mod (i.e. Librarian) with your question on the flowchart, I am sure they will kindly and gently give you the facts or get it straightened out.

We've done that.

But, it's out of my technical area, and the info came to me in PM. Since we do NOT repost PMs here, I'm waiting for winnre to post the info in this thread.

[XYZ]

We've done that.

But, it's out of my technical area, and the info came to me in PM. Since we do NOT repost PMs here, I'm waiting for winnre to post the info in this thread.

What about forwarding it to Jack and/or CSACanonner?

Now this thread has us all curious.

[oldsmoboat]

The title of this thread is: "Flowchart (error) discussion"
Where's the discussion? Or is this about drama?