COPS KEEP SCREWING UP and

[smokycuh]

german govt went from full on nazi mfers to soft *** left wing libtard idiots

[hermosabeach]

Is there a link to the German story or just a screen shot?

[The Gleam]

That's not going to happen here in my lifetime so I'll move on to the gun stuff.

Disarmament has already happened in more than a dozen countries where it was once the norm, and certain US states would like to give it a go - the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and as close as Canada - you're a pathetic fool if you think that won't happen or be pursued in 'your lifetime' - lest you are 100 years old at this moment. It's already being attempted in the US in certain areas.

Law enforcement responding to two dudes fighting have a 50/50 shot of getting it right. I don't know what was reported, when the knife came out, and I'm not using the Wayback Machine to find out. Let's get to the gun stuff.


Finally the gun stuff
Just based on the picture you posted; Would drawing your firearm help or hurt the situation?
You've got one person on the ground, a responding officer dealing with a suspect on the ground, another person swinging a knife at the officer, one person just to the right, and three people in the distance behind the dude with the knife.
Would you draw your gun?
Would you fire your gun?
Just go by what's in that picture.

Well, first - I posted no photos.

2nd - and I say "2ND" with great emphasis - the gun would have been introduced into the situation to defend life and lives of others BEFORE the police ever arrived, solving the issue as I opined.

I would have drawn my gun - police aren't there yet.
I would have fired my gun - police aren't there yet.
Police show up - to write stuff down and call the coroner for the body of formerly knife wielding assailant who is now leaking out a crimson viscous fluid as it pools around him and his weapon.

And that would have been in America, so everyone would go home that night, including the police, have a good dinner and bang their wives.

Assailant goes to the morgue. As it should be.

Critical thinking is not your strong suit. But it seems cowering subserviance may be, and sounds as if you are against the right to self defense.

Are you sure you're in the right place - maybe you thought this was cacaguns.net?

----

[harbormaster]

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/mannheim-knife-attack-policeman-antiislam-activist-injured-in-stabbing/news-story/86570a886355beb3d90055008f2a82c0?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Second cop fixed it, but too late for the first. And yes I was thinking I was posting in OT when I posted this one. Amazing it’s two years old, and yet thanks to “media” I didn’t hear of it until the meme showed up on X

[turbolarry]

Well, first - I posted no photos.

There is a photo in your original post. Maybe go back and double check.

2nd - and I say "2ND" with great emphasis - the gun would have been introduced into the situation to defend life and lives of others BEFORE the police ever arrived, solving the issue as I opined.

OK, good to know. You're willing to take a shot at a dude with a knife, mixing it up with another dude, with people in the background. Really?
Yeah, I'm sure everyone is going to stay nice and still for you so you can have that perfect shot and everything is going line up and come out perfect.

I would have drawn my gun - police aren't there yet
I would have fired my gun - police aren't there yet.
Police show up - to write stuff down and call the coroner for the body of formerly knife wielding assailant who is now leaking out a crimson viscous fluid as it pools around him and his weapon.

It'll be a s#!tshow. Now instead of two dudes fighting it's a man with a gun and shots fired. Nobody knows you and you will be held at gun point by responding officers. How well you respond to officers' commands is going to determine if you get shot next. Hopefully your ammo worked perfectly and didn't pass through striking someone else. Hopefully you didn't hit the innocent dude because they will not stand still for you. Just so you know you are going to be in handcuffs just like the other two.
Oh yeah, if there's a "pool of crimson viscous fluid," that means you missed. Dude's heart is still beating. He's gonna be plugged up and recover.

And that would have been in America, so everyone would go home that night, including the police, have a good dinner and bang their wives.

What happens when everything in your plan doesn't work out perfectly and you hit an innocent? Know your target, backstop, and beyond right? Look back at that picture (yes,there's a picture in your first post) there's people around. It's not going to be perfect, it's going to be a s#!tshow. People will be going home, but may not be you.

Assailant goes to the morgue. As it should be.

Nah, you missed and he was patched up.

Critical thinking is not your strong suit. But it seems cowering subserviance may be, and sounds as if you are against the right to self defense.

I do ok with critical thinking, and I would say staying calm, assessing the entire situation, and responding with the appropriate level of force is not your strong suit. Being quick to escalate to deadly force when there are innocent people in close proximity seems more cowering. Two dudes are going at, one dude pulls a knife, and something needs to happen. Come up from behind and kick knife dude in the nuts, choke him out, get that knife arm and bend it behind his back like a pretzel. He's distracted so I'm going to do something. That would be my plan. I'm all for self defense and defense of others in danger, but in that scenario, I don't see utilizing deadly force as being safe. You do you sir. Go ahead and stick to your plan. I plan to assess and proceed with the safest option.

Are you sure you're in the right place - maybe you thought this was cacaguns.net?

I don't believe this is some exclusive club with velvet ropes so...
Yeah, I'm fine.
What is cacaguns.net? Never been there.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

There is a photo in your original post. Maybe go back and double check.

The OP wasn't by The Gleam. If you go back and double check, The Gleam didn't post a photo.

OK, good to know. You're willing to take a shot at a dude with a knife, mixing it up with another dude, with people in the background. Really?
Yeah, I'm sure everyone is going to stay nice and still for you so you can have that perfect shot and everything is going line up and come out perfect.

If you're carrying a firearm, but unwilling to use it unless it is a 'perfect,' range scenario, you may as well leave the firearm at home. I'm one of those who advises to avoid the situation - FIRST. Failing that, however, it is rare that use of a firearm will ever be in a 'perfect' situation, in the 'perfect' setting, with everyone 'pefectly' reacting. If you're not prepared to deal with that, leave the firearm at home.

It'll be a s#!tshow. Now instead of two dudes fighting it's a man with a gun and shots fired. Nobody knows you and you will be held at gun point by responding officers. How well you respond to officers' commands is going to determine if you get shot next. Hopefully your ammo worked perfectly and didn't pass through striking someone else. Hopefully you didn't hit the innocent dude because they will not stand still for you. Just so you know you are going to be in handcuffs just like the other two.
Oh yeah, if there's a "pool of crimson viscous fluid," that means you missed. Dude's heart is still beating. He's gonna be plugged up and recover.

Go back and note that he said - police aren't there yet. Again, if your primary concern is what will happen when the police arrive, why are you carrying in the first place? Utilizing the correct ammo, hitting the correct target, and knowing what to do before the police arrive is part of the point of training. Likewise, the point of even a 'good shoot' isn't to KILL. It is to eliminate the threat. Whether that means the suspect is killed or just that the suspect is no longer a viable threat, even if still breathing, that is when you STOP pulling the trigger, period. If you don't, that's when, hypothetically 'bad things' happen to you post-shooting.

What happens when everything in your plan doesn't work out perfectly and you hit an innocent? Know your target, backstop, and beyond right? Look back at that picture (yes,there's a picture in your first post) there's people around. It's not going to be perfect, it's going to be a s#!tshow. People will be going home, but may not be you.

You undermine your credibility when repeatedly declaring that The Gleam made the OP. He didn't. Anyway...

In any shooting scenario, even in a righteous shoot, don't expect to be the first one to go home. Don't expect NOT to be held, even if just for questioning, while the police sort it all out. If what is going through your mind prior to utilizing a firearm you are carrying is all the 'what if' scenarios, leave the gun at home as you likely won't be using the firearm, at least not in time.

Nah, you missed and he was patched up.

You need to spend some time actually considering why you carry a firearm and actually getting some training. As I said previously, the point of shooting in self-defense isn't to KILL. If you go in with that attitude and are taken to trial, that attitude will likely get you convicted. While a justifiable homicide is a likely outcome, you will find, consistently, that the point is to eliminate the threat, not to kill.

Such things as the double tap and the triple tap have to do with the threat not being eliminated. Instruction on careful shot placement and 'selecting' your target don't necessarily have to do with killing. They have to do with eliminating the threat. It's just like there are instructors who advise going for a shot to the pelvic region so as to 'break a bone,' preventing the suspect from continuing an attack. (I don't necessarily agree that such an outcome is guaranteed, but the pelvic region is a legitimate target area for myriad reasons.) What I've always figured on is 'center of mass' and that encompasses the largest target area. Shooting the gun out of someone's hand or shooting them in the backside so they start dancing around, well...

I do ok with critical thinking, and I would say staying calm, assessing the entire situation, and responding with the appropriate level of force is not your strong suit. Being quick to escalate to deadly force when there are innocent people in close proximity seems more cowering. Two dudes are going at, one dude pulls a knife, and something needs to happen. Come up from behind and kick knife dude in the nuts, choke him out, get that knife arm and bend it behind his back like a pretzel. He's distracted so I'm going to do something. That would be my plan. I'm all for self defense and defense of others in danger, but in that scenario, I don't see utilizing deadly force as being safe. You do you sir. Go ahead and stick to your plan. I plan to assess and proceed with the safest option.

You're the one who is big on "look at the picture." Do you have time to go up and 'kick the knife' out of his hand or kick him in the groin or put him in a choke hold before the knife is plunged into the officer? Again, if you think that, in such a scenario, you're going to have time to assess the situation, make a plan, and respond with 'equitable force,' go get some training in that when it's time to act, you're past the point of conciously 'thinking things through.' All of that needs to happen prior to when it becomes time to act. Put it this way, there's a reason for the expression: "Train like you play and play like you train."

One of the things you will discover is that it's not 'equitable' force. It's reasonable or proportionate force. The decision as to whether it is considered 'legal' in retrospect has to do with whether your actions meet the level of threat, imminence, and necessity.

Bear in mind that imminence and necessity are the basis as to why a 'minimum distance' will be considered. In this case, the photo you keep pointing to doesn't show an UNARMED individual. Even in California, 20 feet is considered the 'minimum distance' for someone wielding a knife in that it is 'reasonable' that distance can be covered in under 2 seconds by an assailant.

Now, if your 'plan' involves 'doing something' before the knife is pulled, that's a different scenario. Unfortunately, that scenario is not in evidence with the photo you keep referring to.

I don't believe this is some exclusive club with velvet ropes so...
Yeah, I'm fine.
What is cacaguns.net? Never been there.

At this point, if you aren't aware of the website he is referencing, you haven't spent enough time on this site, paying attention. Personally, I don't have a problem with that site's existence. Where I have issues and those issues are shared by many others, is what I believe is being referenced. The overarching philosophy of that site is one which is different than is prevalent on this one and it is more closely aligned with the dissent in Heller than the majority; i.e., that keeping and bearing arms is a priviliege rather than a right.

You are correct to the point that carrying and utilizing a firearm involves responsibility. Likewise, it is 'easy' to sit behind a keyboard, look at a photo, and go - "I'd do this or that." But, that road goes both ways and, in fact, it's the very reason you need an attorney. Jurors will be stting there, not actually in the situation, doing exactly what you are doing, making up stuff in their heads. That's the attorney's job. To cut through that clutter. Perhaps the best, Hollywood version I've seen was on an episode of Blue Bloods...

Just remember what Vinny said...

[turbolarry]

The OP wasn't by The Gleam. If you go back and double check, The Gleam didn't post a photo.

Oh...
Opps, your right

Sorry everyone. My bad.



I hear what you're saying, there will never be a perfect situation, and if the situation escalates to the level where deadly force is justified... it's a bad day. I pray it doesn't happen.
For me deadly force is a last resort. That's all.
Thank you for your articulate response. It does give me some things to think about.
And thanks for the heads up about the other site, I'll pass. I can barely keep up here.

[Thrashard340]

Cops in Europe arresting the victim and not the "migrant" is not a screw up. It's intentional.