H&K ~ 90,000 + the new boss in sd pistols ~

[acaligunner]

So I heard that H&K barrels ( on the vp9 series ) were tested to go 90,000 rounds with no major issues.

Is this now the new standard that H&K has set for modern sd pistols ?

Why back in the day ( Chuck Taylor ) wrote a article about the then new Glock 17 going 100,000 rounds with no issue to the pistol ( only that the polymer mags had worn out and the sight took off to the motherland ), some 1911’s ( in 45acp ) have also gone the distance with 70,000 to 100,000 ( with maybe a frame crack ? ).

So, I a figure a new standard is trying to be set, ( just like rifles and shotguns ) for sd handguns.

100,000 that’s a lot of rounds on the gun, why I don’t believe I’ve shot that many rounds in anything and I’ve been shooting since 8. Well maybe I’ve have 😀.

[Scotty]

Barrels can easily handle that many rounds as long as you don't over heat them. There's some videos where Todd Jarrett shoots 1000 rounds through a pistol pretty much continuously. That's going to do more damage than 100,000 rounds over time. If you can't hang on to the gun, you should probably let the gun cool down.

Top competition shooters can easily put 50,000 rounds in training per year.

[G-forceJunkie]

I have a gen2 Glock 17 with around that many rounds through with the original frame and barrel. Slide broke and was replaced by Glock once. It was my main competition and training pistol for 5-6 years doing around 1500 rounds a month. Full disclosure, all the internal parts have been changed at least once or twice as Glock deemed necessary, nothing ever broke.

[acaligunner]

May just be something to entice new buyers 🤔.
I like H&K products and have owned a few, but there certainly have been other pistols that have had a lot of rounds through them.

I knew some pistols can handle a lot of rounds, my dad bought his Colt 1911 in the 1970’s and my other brother still has that same 1970 Colt and still takes it out.

I can’t remember how many rounds of 45acp that pistol had gone through, so yes, i suspect a lot of pistols can do the same.

Soon as the time comes - I’ll go ahead and get another HK 😏

[BigPimping]

I have a gen2 Glock 17 with around that many rounds through with the original frame and barrel. Slide broke and was replaced by Glock once. It was my main competition and training pistol for 5-6 years doing around 1500 rounds a month. Full disclosure, all the internal parts have been changed at least once or twice as Glock deemed necessary, nothing ever broke.

boy, you must have a lot of dough for ammo

[G-forceJunkie]

boy, you must have a lot of dough for ammo

It was $38/1000 to reload 9mm back then on my $350 used Dillion 650. The good old days...

[Capybara]

On a related note Acaligunner, for all of the H&K hype and fanboyism we've seen for the years leading up to it being on roster, I have been distinctly unimpressed with my VP9L OR. It's not bad but it's definitely mediocre. It's not fun to shoot. It has nothing extraordinary. Just seems like a generic plastic 9 to me.
I may sell it to buy more ammo or an Echelon. With so much hype by Californians for years about how great the VP9s are, I think it's mainly just a case of what we couldn't have gets hyped up to stupid levels. Then when we can have it, we think, "What was all of the hype about?" It's an ok pistol. The market is filled with ok pistols though.

[acaligunner]

I’ve shot a few Glocks before I started buying USP & USPc pistols. I really thought that the bore axis was too high and it did have a slightly different ( to me ) impulse.

As to the ones I have - looks / feels - ahhh , but that’s not the reason I bought H&K - I’m my mind if it works or like the ad says “ 90,000 rounds with no major damage “ 🤔
Ahh ok 😁. That’s means to me - if I shoot 8 rounds it will work - maybe better 🤣.

As long as it works, and I believe the Germans like to build good stuff - then I ( maybe foolishly ) pay .

1 of the best pistols I have is the H&K P7M8 squeeze cocker pistols ~ it’s low capacity 8 rounds, kinda hefty, and you have to maintain a firm grip on that thing ( sorry Pops - my dad at 78 couldn’t hold that grip for so long - so no BOOM sometimes ), but it’s HK quality and it’s rather boring as I’m able to Maintain a great group with it.

I paid $1,500 back in the day - I’m sure some of that was sticker price ( HK stamp ) but I am happy with those guns.

Yes - they do have their little quirks about them, but it’s HK - maybe that HK slap just lets ya know something about their gunz.

take care

[CALI-gula]

HK has not had anything exceptional since the USP, and the P9S it replaced was an even better gun than the USP. The P7 series was also spectacular.

But for all HK claims to be or had been, they should have been the company to come forth with the type of R&D and innovation that Laugo introduced with their Alien, or as seen with the Arsenal Dragon, or the stepped up quality and precision being seen from STI/Staccato, Watchtower, Atlas Gunworks, etc.

All HK seems to be now is a pathetic shell of what it once was and still trying to bank on its former glory. If it doesn't buckle down and reinvest into some real R&D, it's going to be surpassed by so many other better options that have done exactly that. I would even bet that as early as year 2028, HK files for bankruptcy or is bought out by CZ.

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[acaligunner]

I don’t believe gunners are really interested in the alien pistol, new design and good at what it does - but maybe just not the right time for such a thing. Kind of like the chappa under barrel revolver.

HK also bought out the USP / USPc 45acp pistols that were tested to go 25,000 45 acp rounds without any major problems. Those pistols were also durable enough to use +P 45 and without mods 45 super ammo.

Then a long time ago HK did bring out one of the 1st polymer high capacity 18+1 pistols - I handled one but didn’t like it. Which maybe inspired G Glock to do his thing.

But - yes as you stated - there is a fan club out there, I like H&K whatever and I guess that HK slap is just too much for us to pass by. Don’t know why I like them so much, but I do.

Oh yeah, that 90,000+ barrel life thing - as you said it could just be more snake oil ~ I was like 🤔 myself ~ but then again - I like that - 😁.

Thank you and hope all is well.

[The Gleam]

I don’t believe gunners are really interested in the alien pistol, new design and good at what it does - but maybe just not the right time for such a thing. Kind of like the chappa under barrel revolver.

HK also bought out the USP / USPc 45acp pistols that were tested to go 25,000 45 acp rounds without any major problems. Those pistols were also durable enough to use +P 45 and without mods 45 super ammo.

Then a long time ago HK did bring out one of the 1st polymer high capacity 18+1 pistols - I handled one but didn’t like it. Which maybe inspired G Glock to do his thing.

But - yes as you stated - there is a fan club out there, I like H&K whatever and I guess that HK slap is just too much for us to pass by. Don’t know why I like them so much, but I do.

Oh yeah, that 90,000+ barrel life thing - as you said it could just be more snake oil ~ I was like 🤔 myself ~ but then again - I like that - 😁.

Thank you and hope all is well.

Poor HK. There was talk a few years ago they would be closing their doors and selling the company due to financial struggles.

As for the Alien, it's a lot more than just a low bore axis though. Anyone that gets their hands on it loves it and can't understand why more guns have not been made that way. It's the kind of brilliance HK was once known for. I can see why a comparison would be made.

Its action and slide set up are also innovative with entirely new style of lock up. The Chiappa Rhino is just an awkward goofy thing born out of the inherent idea of the Mateba Unica, but poorly executed, and it's not as effective in making use of its low bore axis compared to how that low bore axis works more in line with your aim and grip on the Alien. The Chiappa is also a complex mess of clockwork internally.

Ironically, the Alien is closer to the HK P7 series than just about anything HK or any other company has made since the P7.

https://laugoarmsusa.com/alien-pistol/

As for the VP70, that first polymer pistol you noted, it was meant to be a submachine gun - so the trigger set-up was terrible as a semi-auto pistol. The 18 rounds was a big deal at the time, and it was intended to have a buttstock that fit into a slot which actuated to full auto/3 burst action. It was a bit clunky for that reason too.

It was never meant to be a 'regular' commercial semi-auto pistol. If you look at the rifling of any that were sold as semi-auto, you'll see that it's got extreme deep lands and grooves, to facilitate better operation as a machine pistol. The trigger is about the worst trigger ever sold on a consumer semi-auto pistol, even worse than the Colt All American. But that's because it was meant to have a heavy pull as a machine pistol.

I had a few semi-auto examples in the early 1980s with threaded barrels that I put suppressors on, from separate mail order sources in shot gun news. Worked wonderfully - they were wipe style with rivet baffles inside and was my first exposure to just how effective a suppressor can be to cut down on noise.


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[CALI-gula]

I don’t believe gunners are really interested in the alien pistol, new design and good at what it does - but maybe just not the right time for such a thing. Kind of like the chappa under barrel revolver.

Probably not. Agree. The Alien may be too much new too soon to interest a wider spectrum of shooters, but it is quite a leap in design, and thinking differently, with productive results. When Glocks came out, many shooters weren't on board with that type of innovation at the time either, but it soon became the norm. As for norms, Laugo's foray into something entirely mold breaking is the type of thing that used to be the norm for HK. By comparison, their roller-delay systems were similar brilliance for its time.

But I bet if that Laugo Alien said "HK Alien" on the side of the slide instead, it would be all the rage and the HK clubbers would be slobbering all over it. You wouldn't hear the end of just how great HK is.

I like HK too, but that doesn't change the fact that HK is lagging quite behind on innovation the past 20 years.

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[acaligunner]

I wonder if the Alien pistol got their idea from the Chiappa / maybe CZ ( low bore axis ) firearms ? I forgot which came 1st - but I think I’m correct in the above thinking. Maybe 🤔.

My ( out of state brother ) has a Springfield SAR 3 - that I use to shoot ( that’s why I mentioned the HK slap ) and the way I felt ( with the roller design ) was that it recoiled a bit more for a 308 / 7.62x51. Greek designed rifle blue printed / made on HK machinery.

He also has the Springfield 48 ( broomstick 🤣 ) which recoiled less imo.

I also handled the HK 18+1 ( forgot that model # ) polymer pistol, and I did not like it.

I also handled and then bought the 1st gen Glock 17 - at first I also didn’t like that gun, just too new for me to understand what was going on. It sat in my safe for a while - and massad ayoob mag article finally got me to shoot and then admire Glock.

I understand there are a lot of fans that just like HK for no other reason than the stamp on the receiver- I just feel that if it’s German quality and has a good record, I’ll look / get into it.

The thing is ( like you have stated ) I guess if HK believes that their whatever works and is tough enough - yes they will lag in bringing out something new.

The vp9 is new to me - compared to the p2000 - and that marketing 90,000 + barrel life, had me like “ I guess it will then work for 10 shots COOL 😏..

I’m still waiting on a HK 45acp with 8+1 ca new polymer pistol, how long must I wait ahhhh 🤨.

I appreciate you’re post my friend ^ 🙂

[sigstroker]

The Alien is old news. The new hotness at SHOT was the Rideout Arsenal Dragon.

[The Gleam]

The Alien is old news. The new hotness at SHOT was the Rideout Arsenal Dragon.

I wouldn't say 'old news' as the Rideout Arsenal Dragon is very similar in concept. What I like most about the Dragon is its Lego like assembly' arrangement - absolutely brilliant.

But the implication is that the Alien is still new news as many people are yet to have their hands on one, that still want one, and that copy-cats and clones of the idea will follow to fill the void in supply.

That's not a bad thing, but the new actual news just may be that others and possibly some mainstream high production companies like CZ, HK, SIG, KelTec, or others may embrace the idea soon and introduce their own versions of the profile.

Forgotten Weapons did a good video on the Rideout Arsenal Dragon and in comparing it to the Alien - it's a good watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ7RdSgGeMA

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rideout-arsenal-dragon-a-new-low-bore-axis-lever-delayed-pistol/

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