Sig Sauer P320, Banned

[k1dude]

I watched a recent video of one that fired while holstered. It's on youtube. That school now banned that model from its classes.

Link? I can't find it.

[Mute]

This is the first video I've seen on the P320 discharge problem that looks like a realistic explanation of what may be happening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4Ri409-5I&ab_channel=LFDResearch

[walmart_ar15]

This is the first video I've seen on the P320 discharge problem that looks like a realistic explanation of what may be happening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4R...el=LFDResearch

Guess it is tolerance staking issue, with wrong parts. Sear is engaging the striker when it is not supposed to. Then if the last line of defense, striker block, is malfunctioning, then boom. Thus, with so many P320 out there, with the law of probability and Murphy, ND happens. Two things have to go wrong for misfire.

Probably the results of modern-day risk management. Double Jeopardy is not considered to be credible situation. Unfortunately, with such high population, probability won.

[walmart_ar15]

This is the first video I've seen on the P320 discharge problem that looks like a realistic explanation of what may be happening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4R...el=LFDResearch

Guess it is tolerance staking issue, with wrong parts. Sear is engaging the striker when it is not supposed to. Then if the last line of defense, striker block, is malfunctioning, then boom. Thus, with so many P320 out there, with the law of probability and Murphy, ND happens. Two things have to go wrong for misfire.

Probably the results of modern-day risk management. Double Jeopardy is not considered to be credible situation. Unfortunately, with such high population, probability won.

[acaligunner]

Sig sauer asked for immunity from the lawsuits ~ who knows if they are going to ignore the issues with the p320 and / or go back to the drawing board with the 320.

[Scotty]

Guess it is tolerance staking issue, with wrong parts. Sear is engaging the striker when it is not supposed to. Then if the last line of defense, striker block, is malfunctioning, then boom. Thus, with so many P320 out there, with the law of probability and Murphy, ND happens. Two things have to go wrong for misfire.

Not exactly. Bryce Gray has explained it, 4 things have to happen for this to occur.
1. Using a 45/10mm take down lever in a 9/40/357 FCU.
2. Reassemble the gun without engaging the slide lock.
3. Then a tolerance stack up issue where the striker engages the sear while the seat is in the down position.
4. Failure if the striker safety.

The idiot Robert Burke of Sig Armorer, who has been bad mouthing Bruce Gray this entire time blaming Sig, well he just released a video talking about going to Sig and trying to grill their engineers only to be schooled by them. Now he's saying it's a holster/training issue.

BTW, I call him a idiot because I called him out on his fix for out of battery issue with the 320. He sells a $60 disconnect to "fix it". When I fully know the answer, I asked him if the striker spring has enough energy to set off a primer with the slide that far back. He refused to answer.

[mossy]

With all the info available on the P320 available I'm surprised LEO agencies are still issuing them. Having them on the street at this point is just a massive liability.

[walmart_ar15]

Not exactly. Bryce Gray has explained it, 4 things have to happen for this to occur.
1. Using a 45/10mm take down lever in a 9/40/357 FCU.
2. Reassemble the gun without engaging the slide lock.
3. Then a tolerance stack up issue where the striker engages the sear while the seat is in the down position.
4. Failure if the striker safety.

The idiot Robert Burke of Sig Armorer, who has been bad mouthing Bruce Gray this entire time blaming Sig, well he just released a video talking about going to Sig and trying to grill their engineers only to be schooled by them. Now he's saying it's a holster/training issue.

BTW, I call him a idiot because I called him out on his fix for out of battery issue with the 320. He sells a $60 disconnect to "fix it". When I fully know the answer, I asked him if the striker spring has enough energy to set off a primer with the slide that far back. He refused to answer.

hum, then it still does not explain why the gun goes off in the holster RIGHT after it was fired (shown in YT)? Transition right from firing, no reassemble. Would be interesting to know exactly dimension wise, how different are 45 vs 9 take down lever?

[Scotty]

hum, then it still does not explain why the gun goes off in the holster RIGHT after it was fired (shown in YT)? Transition right from firing, no reassemble. Would be interesting to know exactly dimension wise, how different are 45 vs 9 take down lever?

It really doesn't matter that much. The videos that have been posted show the differences. Keep in mind, ALL 4 things have to occur for the sear to be in the down position to barely catch the striker and the gun to go off.

It all goes back to the holster like I've said before. There are people that have said it's the vibration/shock from a holster that is the cause. That's a load of crap. Those people don't understand how vibration and shock work. One of the things I do at work is use test labs to conduct vibration, shock, and acceleration testing on a part.

I've known quite a few people that had their gun go off in a holster. None recall ever sticking their finger into the holster, none using a 320 when it occurred.

I didn't have mine discharge but I did have an incident where my finger went into the holster. I normally stick my finger way out but on that day it wasn't enough and clipped the edge of the holster and went into the trigger guard. I felt the face of the trigger on my M&P with my trigger finger. I was able to pull my finger out in time, but not stop the inertia of my arm and gun going into the holster. My butt puckered up tight. This happened in the middle of an IDPA match. It made me realized that just a momentary lapse could have put a hole into my leg. This happened about a decade ago. Putting a gun into a holster has been a slow deliberate process for me.

[NorcalGSG]

No offense, but I highly doubt that the slide stop being swapped is a mandatory thing for this defect to appear. Too many instances of police issued weapons where even if they were disassembled in bulk and parts mixed up, the agency doesn't have any of the 45/10mm versions even available to supply the mixing up of parts. Just IMHO of course.

[walmart_ar15]

No offense, but I highly doubt that the slide stop being swapped is a mandatory thing for this defect to appear. Too many instances of police issued weapons where even if they were disassembled in bulk and parts mixed up, the agency doesn't have any of the 45/10mm versions even available to supply the mixing up of parts. Just IMHO of course.

It is why it would be interesting to know the dimensional differences between the 45/10mm bar vs the 9mm bar. Or is the bar flex enough it can bend/warp out of dimension from repeat use?

If I understand the explanation, the larger bar pushes the sear just a hair higher so during reassembly will catch the firing pin. So now the firing pin is "cocked" but not with sufficient surface area. A downward movement with sudden stop may just disconnect the sear from the firing pin. Without the firing pin stop activated, the pin strikes the primer.

If it is because of the take down level, so what if the shooter put some kind of pressure on the level while shooting? We all had accidentally push up the slide stop while firing, what if pushing down or up on the take down level affects how the sear contact with the firing pin?

So the 4 things that had to happen can be just 2. Out of spec take down lever, and broken FPS.

[Capybara]

People still buy SIGs?

[Scotty]

It is why it would be interesting to know the dimensional differences between the 45/10mm bar vs the 9mm bar. Or is the bar flex enough it can bend/warp out of dimension from repeat use?

If I understand the explanation, the larger bar pushes the sear just a hair higher so during reassembly will catch the firing pin. So now the firing pin is "cocked" but not with sufficient surface area. A downward movement with sudden stop may just disconnect the sear from the firing pin. Without the firing pin stop activated, the pin strikes the primer.

If it is because of the take down level, so what if the shooter put some kind of pressure on the level while shooting? We all had accidentally push up the slide stop while firing, what if pushing down or up on the take down level affects how the sear contact with the firing pin?

So the 4 things that had to happen can be just 2. Out of spec take down lever, and broken FPS.

It's actually the take down safety lever, not the take down lever as I previously wrote. This lever connects the take down lever to the sear. It also prevents the take down lever from being rotated if a mag is inserted. The difference between the two is easily spotted by rotating the take down lever and looking down into the grip, there's a ledge that prevents the mag from being inserted. The 45 version does not have this ledge.

One thing to keep in mind is if you don't perform step 2, locking the slide back during assembly, the trigger is still dead. So for this to be a problem, you would need to have the wrong part, a broken firing pin block, and assemble the gun incorrectly. Then the next round that is chambered can go off simply by wiggling the slide.

This isn't a problem if you lock the slide back after reassembly which is something you HAVE to do to reset the sear if you want to shoot the gun.

I don't know what other people do, but when I disassemble a gun, the first thing I do after reassembly is to dry fire it.

For this to all happen is highly improbable. I think people are grasping at anything they can.

[acaligunner]

^
My huevos say “ no no no senior use it something else “
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