Gun show error, who is in trouble?

[winnre]

At the last gun show I bought a C&R long gun. The guy never asked for ID or anything, but I put my info down for him just the same. While I appreciate the "This is America I value my freedom" point of view, I understand that SOME paper trail is usually necessary.

Another table had a pistol I wanted that may be C&R but I am not sure. I think you need to know the serial number inf to be sure and I do not have access to that right now. He offered to sell it to me cash and carry but it was out of my budget. He says he will hold it for me.

Now from what I know, the pistol is new enough and needs to go through the DROS process. So we simply walk it to a dealer who can do the DROS and that's that.

Not everyone may know that. If I buy it cash and carry am I in the wrong or is the seller wrong? If the seller refuses to give his info to the dealer for DROS can I still buy it? Can I buy it for cash and VolReg it if he refuses to DROS it?

I have no idea why he hates paperwork, seems to me a good way to lose your table at a gun show. if the gun was not to unique I'd look for another one, but I really have my eye set on it. I'll go to the next show and hopefully he will not have issues with doing it the California way.

Just wondering how much criminal liability I'd be skating around if the dealer is the one who messes about.

[HK4113]

The dealer takes the hit. I just want to clarify that you never asked for a paperless deal right?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

If two parties who are not California licenced dealers transfer a handgun in California without doing a PPT at a dealer then both parties to the transaction will have violated the law.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Not everyone may know that. If I buy it cash and carry am I in the wrong or is the seller wrong? If the seller refuses to give his info to the dealer for DROS can I still buy it? Can I buy it for cash and VolReg it if he refuses to DROS it?

Let's simplify your question. It should read, "If I buy a firearm from an undercover agent at a gun show without going through the proper paperwork, who gets in trouble?"

Anyone want to guess the answer to that?

[HK4113]

Let's simplify your question. It should read, "If I buy a firearm from an undercover agent at a gun show without going through the proper paperwork, who gets in trouble?"

Anyone want to guess the answer to that?

If this is the scenario then both parties should get in trouble however unless I am reading it wrong, i thought the OP was buying from a dealer with a table at the show.

From experience, if I buy a gun and the dealer does't have their paperwork in order on a gun they sold to me, the ATF goes after the dealer, not me.

[alfred1222]

Let's simplify your question. It should read, "If I buy a firearm from an undercover agent at a gun show without going through the proper paperwork, who gets in trouble?"

Anyone want to guess the answer to that?

I DO I DO!!! I think the answer is.... Jail??

[winnre]

Yes, this is a purchase from a seller with a table, not a guy walking around with guns in a backpack.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

A private seller with a table or a licensed dealer with a table?

[tenpercentfirearms]

A private seller with a table or a licensed dealer with a table?

Either way, how do you know it isn't an undercover agent? Answer is you do not. So anyone who offers to do something illegal for you should be viewed as an undercover agent and you shouldn't do it.

I am kind of disappointed this flew right over a few of your heads. If the other side of the transaction is the authorities, the only person going to jail is you.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Either way, how do you know it isn't an undercover agent? Answer is you do not. So anyone who offers to do something illegal for you should be viewed as an undercover agent and you shouldn't do it.

I am kind of disappointed this flew right over a few of your heads. If the other side of the transaction is the authorities, the only person going to jail is you.

If the seller is a California licensed dealer, what would the buyer be charged with if the dealer did cash and carry without DROS?

I already told the OP that both parties will have violated the law if neither is a California licensed dealer. But now the OP is being vague about whether or not the seller is a licensed dealer with a table or a private party with a table.

[paul0660]

Let's simplify your question. It should read, "If I buy a firearm from an undercover agent at a gun show without going through the proper paperwork, who gets in trouble?"

Anyone want to guess the answer to that?

Probably him. I don't have the code in front of me but I remember "sell, lease, or transfer" pretty clearly. Pitcher, not catcher, in trouble.

[NYsteveZ]

Eric Holder had a booth at a gun show?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Probably him. I don't have the code in front of me but I remember "sell, lease, or transfer" pretty clearly. Pitcher, not catcher, in trouble.

Your forgetting CPC 27545 (formerly 12072(d))...

27545. Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's
license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the
parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer
of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to
Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

Both pitcher and catcher are in trouble if neither party to the transaction is a California licensed dealer.

[winnre]

I am not hiding information. I do not know if the seller is a licensed dealer or not. In fact I have never seen a seller's FFL at a gun show nor do I ask to.

I have my C&R so that may cover me buying a C&R gun, then again if I do something wrong I can lose my C&R too.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

At the last gun show I bought a C&R long gun. The guy never asked for ID or anything, but I put my info down for him just the same. While I appreciate the "This is America I value my freedom" point of view, I understand that SOME paper trail is usually necessary.

I have my C&R so that may cover me buying a C&R gun, then again if I do something wrong I can lose my C&R too.

Since you are a C&R FFL then a paper trail is required by law. You are required to get the seller's name and address for your bound book when you acquire a C&R firearm. Hopefully you did that when you acquired the C&R long gun from the seller who didn't want to see your ID.

I am not hiding information. I do not know if the seller is a licensed dealer or not. In fact I have never seen a seller's FFL at a gun show nor do I ask to.

It's pretty doubtful that a California licensed dealer would be selling handguns cash and carry at a gun show. He was probably just some unlicensed guy who rented a table to sell off his collection. If that's the case then both of you would be in violation of CPC 27545 if you bought the handgun from him without doing a PPT at a dealer.