A surge in training?

[SuperSet]

For sure, the ammo costs are going to make up the bulk of your training costs. And .22LR is a good option as I've seen many top level shooters choose this caliber for their regular training regimen. The only issue I have with .22LR is if you are still a new-ish shooter and have not overcome your flinch response, there is no substitute for firing the actual caliber.
There's no getting around the fact that anyone interested in this will know beforehand that they bought into an expensive lifestyle. And within that, some will choose to spend that money picking up skills and seeking professional input vs buying another AR/ACOG.

[Outta Control]

For sure, the ammo costs are going to make up the bulk of your training costs. And .22LR is a good option as I've seen many top level shooters choose this caliber for their regular training regimen. The only issue I have with .22LR is if you are still a new-ish shooter and have not overcome your flinch response, there is no substitute for firing the actual caliber.
There's no getting around the fact that anyone interested in this will know beforehand that they bought into an expensive lifestyle. And within that, some will choose to spend that money picking up skills and seeking professional input vs buying another AR/ACOG.

I agree about the flinch response and just like other $$$ hobby choose on what to spend your $ wisely.

[rkt88edmo]

Professional training and Learning how to game are two completely separate animals.

Maybe off topic but I think Magpul did a real disservice by setting the cost to train bar at $200-$250 per day. Magpul may command these prices but now pop up trainers are charging this much.

That was the going rate for many trainers well before magpul, like a decade before.

[chris]

i have noticed that myself. i have taken quite a few in the last few years. pretty due to the part my unit won't train the way i like to train and trained overseas. so yes i take classes.

it's good to see people take these clases to learn how use their firearms safely. there is absolutely nothing wrong with people taking a training class.

[locosway]

Professional training and Learning how to game are two completely separate animals.

Maybe off topic but I think Magpul did a real disservice by setting the cost to train bar at $200-$250 per day. Magpul may command these prices but now pop up trainers are charging this much.

Have you ever run a class or a training business?

Do you understand the costs involved?

If I have 15 people show up for my class, and I charged say, $75 per person as you say, that's $1125. Depending on the range, the 8 hour range fee could be $150 for everyone, or $350. At 15 people, I'm not teaching the class alone, so that means I need to pay at least one other instructor, and perhaps a RSO to help out. So, let's say $25/hr for the other instructor, that's $200. Targets, target stands, staples, tape, various supplies. Those all cost money.

Other costs you don't see are $2M insurance in case someone in the class shoots themselves or someone else. A $300 trauma kit that is always updated. Any medical training to stay proficient for yourself and anyone you hire (see other instructors).

Not to mention the cost of advertising the class, driving to the range, etc. None of this stuff is cheap, and it takes A LOT of work running a firearms training business.

So with the above, less the range fee and paying the other instructor, I'm taking home $575 to cover all my business costs and to pay me. I don't know about you guys, but what's left over after costs is less than I make from my day job. Granted the work is more fun and more satisfying, but even with teaching 5 days a week @ 15 students a day, I couldn't quit my day job.

[joelogic]

No where did I say I want to pay $75. My gripe is not with $200 for the day but more so the quality of trainer charging $200. My point was read about the company and their AAR's and make the personal determination of worth.

I have had some lousy instructors, so I may be a little jaded.

As a side note, I would like to pay $75 for a practice day at the range.

[Outta Control]

Joe: Just like finding the right martial arts school, it is important for you to seek out instructors that fits your need. I feel that $200 is more than adequate and reasonable for a good training company.

[locosway]

No where did I say I want to pay $75. My gripe is not with $200 for the day but more so the quality of trainer charging $200. My point was read about the company and their AAR's and make the personal determination of worth.

I have had some lousy instructors, so I may be a little jaded.

As a side note, I would like to pay $75 for a practice day at the range.

You're right, you didn't say $75, but you are eluding to paying much less than $200. As you can see, there are a lot of fees and resources put into running a class/company that deals with firearms training, probably more so than a lot of other classes. I also didn't even get into the trainers ammo costs since they have to demo every course of fire before the students do it. Then there's also continuing education as the teacher is first and foremost a student himself.

I charge $100 for a 4.5 hour class, and $150 for an all day class. I keep my class sizes small, always 12 or less students to maximize the student:instructor ratio so the student can get the most out of the class. I've seen other instructors charging $75 for their classes, and they have awesome AAR's too. They could likely charge more, but they don't.

My point being, this stuff isn't cheap, and there is a TON of costs that most people don't see initially or at all. This is a pay to play sport, more so than many others. You take your chances by attending a class, just the same as I do as an instructor when I take classes. There's also the students who show up and want to teach you how they shoot, which is always interesting.

Do a little homework, watch some Youtube videos on the training content, and consider it a learning experience. Even if you have a bad experience, you can learn from it.

[9mmepiphany]

There's also the students who show up and want to teach you how they shoot, which is always interesting.

I've only had a couple of those...and you're right, it is interesting. They didn't meet the class requirement of coming with an open mind.

In 1:1 instruction, my policy is: If You Don't Improve, You Don't Pay...never had anyone deny that they've improved

[Manolito]

I put training in three categories.
Weapons familiarization and initial range safety. Entry level instructor.
Defensive hand gun training advanced movement of shooter and target with techniques to overcome situations. Instructor is advanced but never faced combat or multiple shooting situations.
Combat arms class taught by the highest skilled instructors using live fire houses and opponents using marking ammunition or lasers. This class or classes are the pinacle of training and should demand the higher ends of cost and facilities. These instructors are in two categories in my opinion. Those that read the book and are now experts and those that can answer my one question. have you been involved in hostile shootings?

My opinion all instructors are worth their fees and if the students don't agree the instructor will have a very short career.

These are just one persons opinion.

Respectfully,
Bill

[locosway]

I've only had a couple of those...and you're right, it is interesting. They didn't meet the class requirement of coming with an open mind.

In 1:1 instruction, my policy is: If You Don't Improve, You Don't Pay...never had anyone deny that they've improved

If anyone is unhappy with my class, they can ask for a refund less any materials used. Haven't had an issue with that, in fact people have said I should charge more.

[Outta Control]

...My opinion all instructors are worth their fees and if the students don't agree the instructor will have a very short career.

These are just one persons opinion.

Respectfully,
Bill

I wish that was true for ADE.

[9mmepiphany]

I put training in three categories.
Weapons familiarization and initial range safety. Entry level instructor.
Defensive hand gun training advanced movement of shooter and target with techniques to overcome situations. Instructor is advanced but never faced combat or multiple shooting situations.

I teach in a position between these two categories.

While I will cover basic familiarization, I characterize what I teach as the fundamental shooting skills I think everyone should have before they progress on to either Defensive or Competition skills training.

Things like being able to:
1. draw correctly and firing the first shot at extension
2. place shots accurately (6" circle") at about 4 shots per second form 5-7 yards
3. perform all three types of magazine changes most efficiently
4. clearing all three types on stoppages
5. transition between targets most effectively
6. shoot on the move
7. cut a playing card in half edgewise from 5 yards

I think these are the basic skills that you should have before attending a more advanced class, so they you be able to absorb tactics rather than worry about placing your shots or keeping the gun running

[ir0nclash86]

If anyone is unhappy with my class, they can ask for a refund less any materials used. Haven't had an issue with that, in fact people have said I should charge more.

Where are your courses at? I might be intersted in taking one when i get some free time.

EDIT: I JUST NOTICED THE LINK IN YOUR SIGNATURE.

[locosway]

Where are your courses at? I might be intersted in taking one when i get some free time.

EDIT: I JUST NOTICED THE LINK IN YOUR SIGNATURE.

I run all of my classes out of Angeles right now, but I've had a lot of requests for San Diego and Central/Northern California as well. I'll be looking into somewhere in San Diego to hold classes after this Summer.

If you're interested in a class, this CGF event might be a good one to attend, seeing as how each signup has money going to CGF.

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/component/content/article/38-events/210-june-3-cgf-ryman-tactical-offer-los-angeles-area-multi-state-carry-license-a-defensive-handgun-training-event.html