Registering/Selling Pistols

[BigRich22]

Firstly, hope all is well.

I didn't know which forum to ask this question so thought I'd start here. Mods, if I need to move this, please lmk.

I am pretty versed in the gun regulations in CA but I got stumped when a friend asked me a question recently. Thought maybe my awesome community here might know the answer - wondering if pistols need to be registered to the state before selling/transferring through FFL and DROSing in CA? Getting both yes and no answers.

What about shotguns and bolt action?

Thanks!

[9Cal_OC]

No if sold/transferred within 60 days.

[mycrstuff]

Don't forget there are pistols that are pre-registration. I think private party sales didn't get registered until the early 1990s. I know a few people (old guys) that when they went to get a CCW they couldn't get their guns on the permit because they weren't registered and refused to register them. They had to go out an buy new pistols.

[Librarian]

So ...

DROS reporting began before 1923, and handguns bought through CA gun dealers were reported as DROS.

CA required sales to go through CA FFLs in 1990; handguns were reported to the state with the usual name and address plus gun info from that point. Long guns were also supposed to go through CA FFLs, but C&R long guns were exempt.

In 2014, state began collecting info for long guns as they had done for handguns and the C&R long gun exemption was removed.

There are several 'voluntary' ways to report guns that do not use an FFL - New Residents, C&R purchases from out of state, intrafamilial transfer and inheritance, etc.

It is not yet required that a gun be in CA's Automated Firearms System database (AFS). There many guns not known to the state, principally since they have not been transferred in many years, and likely because the requirements are/were poorly known/understood or simply ignored. Talking millions of guns.

It is not necessary attribute of a gun in CA that it be known to the state. Because there are so many that are not in AFS, that is not checked for sellers.

I always groan at newspaper articles that try to make something out of 'the gun was not registered'.

[G-forceJunkie]

No, you never have to register to sell it. Nothing is checked on the sellers side other than if the gun is reported stolen. Then it gets registered to the new owner.

[BigRich22]

You guys are amazing. Thanks for teaching us.

He told me yesterday that he has 1 pistol back in his former state he would like to include in this sell but he's been here for half a year already. Will that be a problem? I wanted to tell him the DOJ won't care since they just want all guns to be registered in their system

[riderr]

You guys are amazing. Thanks for teaching us.

He told me yesterday that he has 1 pistol back in his former state he would like to include in this sell but he's been here for half a year already. Will that be a problem? I wanted to tell him the DOJ won't care since they just want all guns to be registered in their system

From the moment he had established CA residency, he had 60 days to register the imported guns. Failure to do is a violation of CA Pen Code 27590. Then again, it doesn't stop it from transferring the gun ownership to you, provided he has already brought the gun to California.

[Librarian]

From the moment he had established CA residency, he had 60 days to register the imported guns. Failure to do is a violation of CA Pen Code 27590. Then again, it doesn't stop it from transferring the gun ownership to you, provided he has already brought the gun to California.

Important distinction - one cannot violate 27590: 27590 establishes penalties for failing to follow 27560 (and other sections), and 27560 says

27560.

(a) Within 60 days of bringing a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm, into this state, a personal firearm importer shall do one of the following:

It's not 60 days from establishing residency, it's 60 days from when the new resident brings the gun into CA.

I have never heard of a prosecution based on 27560; doesn't mean it can't happen.

[BigRich22]

Important distinction - one cannot violate 27590: 27590 establishes penalties for failing to follow 27560 (and other sections), and 27560 says



It's not 60 days from establishing residency, it's 60 days from when the new resident brings the gun into CA.

I have never heard of a prosecution based on 27560; doesn't mean it can't happen.

THANK YOU. I actually got into a debate with my attorney pal who specializes in firearm law.
????? He disagree with me when I told him I interpreted 27590 as 60 days from when the gun entered the state and not 60 days from when residency was claimed.

So correct this if I am wrong but if someone is not a "new resident," they are still allowed to bring in pistols from their former state and register them within 60 days of bringing them in?
That Just make so much more sense to me bc some people move with their whole family and they don't want to have firearms in the same vehicle as their children, etc. and sometimes moves take a lot longer than 2 months...

[Quiet]

No, you never have to register to sell it. Nothing is checked on the sellers side other than if the gun is reported stolen. Then it gets registered to the new owner.

This is mostly correct.

In addition to the transferee (buyer) being recorded as the new owner of the firearm, the transferor (seller) also gets recorded as the previous owner of the firearm and the firearm gets a tag if the transferor is a new resident of CA (personal firearm importer). [PC 28060(c)]

The personal firearm importer tag is so that CA DOJ BOF can determine if the seller is operating as an illegal unsafe handgun importer.
^It is illegal to import "unsafe handguns" to CA for sale to non-exempt persons. [PC 32000(a)]

New resident of CA (personal firearm importer) can legally import CA legal firearms they intend to keep to CA. [PC 17000(a)(7)]
Due to CA unsafe handgun laws, any handguns they intend to sell once they get to CA need to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (LEO, C&R, OTP, SAE, SSE2).
^Making/collecting "pre-orders" of off-Roster handguns on online forums, that are monitored by CA LE agencies, is establishing intent to sell.

THANK YOU. I actually got into a debate with my attorney pal who specializes in firearm law.
??? He disagree with me when I told him I interpreted 27590 as 60 days from when the gun entered the state and not 60 days from when residency was claimed.

So correct this if I am wrong but if someone is not a "new resident," they are still allowed to bring in pistols from their former state and register them within 60 days of bringing them in?
That Just make so much more sense to me bc some people move with their whole family and they don't want to have firearms in the same vehicle as their children, etc. and sometimes moves take a lot longer than 2 months...

AFAIK, per CA DOJ BOF...

After one year of establishing residency in CA, a person can no longer claim they are a "new resident of CA" and any firearm they want to bring into CA must be imported in via CA FFL dealer pursuant to PC 27585(a).
^Firearms imported in this manner requires the firearm to be CA legal and if it is a handgun, then it needs to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (C&R, OTP, SAE, SSE2).