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So can we put pistol braces on our pistols yet?
I haven't seen anything , thanks
I haven't seen anything , thanks
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Currently... (even with the most recent Federal court rulings)
Federal = Yes
CA = No*.
^This is because CA SBR/SBS laws are stricter than the Federal laws and the Federal court rulings were written in a way that they did not affect State laws on the issue.
*1. If it only used as intended (strapped/braced along the forearm of the shooting hand), then it can be defended as being legal because it is not being used as a shoulder stock.
Forgot to mention...
*2. If the arm stabilizing brace is attached to a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW, then it will be 100% CA legal.
^Title 2 AOW are granted an exemption to CA SBR/SBS laws.Last edited by Quiet; 06-22-2024, 3:03 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). -
Thanks, I hope we can get them soon.Comment
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Legal in Ca.? Please. The Commies here are doing everything within their power, in many ways illegal, to disarm us as quickly as possible. The chances of bump stocks, suppressors, SBS/SBR EVER becoming legal here are zilch. Californians will be doing better than expected if the State allows them to keep a single shot .22 boys rifle within the next 5 years. This state will disarm civilians, I'm surprised they haven't already done so. They are accountable to nobody, they do whatever they want. They don't follow laws, SCOTUS, Bruen or the 2A and never will. Short of an armed insurrection, they have absolutely zero accountability to anyone.Last edited by Capybara; 06-15-2024, 5:24 PM.NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer
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AOW for braced AR pistols in CA? I've tried to read up on it as much as I could, but I'm still not sure if that's the only solution.Too many rifles, not enough time...Comment
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A CA resident can legally make their Title 1 Handgun (i.e. CA legal AR pistol) into a Title 2 AOW by submitting a completed ATF Form 1 to make an AOW ($200 tax stamp) to the BATFE NFA Branch and once it is approved, it will then be CA legal to have an arm stabilizing brace on it.
No CA DOJ approval or notification is required by Federal or CA laws, in order to legally make an AOW, only BATFE approval is required.
Upon obtaining BATFE approval to make an AOW, it will be legal under Federal and CA laws to attach a forward vertical grip and arm stabilizing brace on that "handgun".
Federal laws will then require the maker to engrave their info on to the firearm (legal name, city, state) because that person is the legal manufacturer of the Title 2 AOW.
As a BATFE approved AOW, the firearm will be exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws [PC 17710(a)], which means having an arm stabilizing brace on it will be 100% CA legal.
BATFE approved AOW are not exempt from CA assault weapons laws, therefore in order to remain CA legal, the AOW must be configured so that it is not considered an assault weapon.Last edited by Quiet; 06-22-2024, 3:10 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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Does that mean the Flux Raider would be legal?
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Under Federal laws...
A Title 1 Rifle cannot be legally made into a Title 2 AOW.
A Title 1 Shotgun cannot be legally made into a Title 2 AOW.
A Title 1 Handgun can be legally made into a Title 2 AOW.
A Title 1 Other can be legally made into a Title 2 AOW.
ATF 4473 as "handgun" = can be made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "long gun" = cannot be made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" = can be made into an AOW
A virgin receiver is a Title 1 Other firearm and ATF 4473'd as "other".
Under CA laws...
A BATFE approved AOW is exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws.
Unless an exemption is utilized that will allow a receiver to be DROS'd as a "handgun, receiver"; a virgin receiver is:
Before 2019; CA DROS'd as "long gun, rifle, receiver" or "long gun, shotgun, receiver".
After 2019; CA DROS'd as "long gun, other, receiver".
Therefore...
As long as the receiver is ATF 4473'd as "handgun" or "other", then it can legally be made into a Title 2 AOW with BATFE approval.
Once it is legally made into a Title 2 AOW, the firearm will be exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws.
^Which means it does not matter how the receiver was DROS'd, because as a BATFE approved AOW, it is exempt from being considered a SBR/SBS under CA laws.
Examples for virgin receivers...
ATF 4473 as "long gun" + CA DROS as "long gun, rifle, receiver" = cannot be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" + CA DROS as "long gun, rifle, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" + CA DROS as "long gun, other, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" + CA DROS as "handgun, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "handgun" + CA DROS as "handgun, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
Last edited by Quiet; 06-23-2024, 5:55 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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No because AOW are not exempt from CA assault weapons laws and the Flux Raider causes the firearm to meet the definition of an assault weapon [PC 30515(a)(4)(B),(C)].
A BATFE approved AOW in a plain Recover Tactical stabilizer would be CA legal, because it does not cause the firearm to meet the definition of an assault weapon.
^Attaching the optional forward magazine holder/grip will cause the firearm to meet the definition of an assault weapon and make this illegal in CA.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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The roadblock, at the time this was being done, was...
The ATF 4473 had three options ("handgun", "long gun", and "other").
Whereas, the CA DROS system only had two options ("handgun" and "long gun") and the "long gun" option was subdivided into two different categories ("long gun, rifle" and "long gun, shotgun").
Since there was no option for an "other", firearms that were considered a Title 1 Other under Federal laws were being forced into being CA DROS'd as a "long gun, rifle" or "long gun, shotgun".
What Franklin Armory did ultimately caused was CA DOJ to modify the CA DROS system, in 2019, to provide another category for the "long gun" option ("long gun, other").
This allowed...
A Title 1 Other firearm (ATF 4473 as "other") that is a firearm that is not a pistol, rifle, or shotgun to be CA DROS'd as "long gun, other".
A Title 1 Other firearm (ATF 4473 as "other") that is a receiver to be CA DROS'd as "long gun, other, receiver".
Under current Federal and CA laws...
ATF 4473 as "long gun" + CA DROS as "long gun, rifle" = cannot be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "long gun" + CA DROS as "long gun, rifle, receiver" = cannot be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "long gun" + CA DROS as "long gun, shotgun" = cannot be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "long gun" + CA DROS as "long gun, shotgun, receiver" = cannot be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" + CA DROS as "long gun, rifle, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" + CA DROS as "long gun, other, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" + CA DROS as "long gun, other" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "other" + CA DROS as "handgun, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "handgun" + CA DROS as "handgun, receiver" = can be legally made into an AOW
ATF 4473 as "handgun" + CA DROS as "handgun" = can be legally made into an AOWLast edited by Quiet; 06-23-2024, 7:21 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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As a semi-auto, it is only CA legal if it has a fixed 10 or less round magazine that cannot be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or that is permanently attached in the firearm's magazine well. [PC 30515(a)(4),(b)]
Under CA laws...
There is no AOW exemption to CA assault weapons laws.
A firearm with a less than 16" barrel length is a "handgun". [PC 16640 and 16530]
Therefore, CA assault weapon laws for pistols apply to AOW that are semi-auto. [PC 30515(a)(4)]
An AOW that is a semi-auto pistol with a fixed 10 or less round magazine can legally have a threaded barrel, second handgrip, shroud, and/or accept magazines outside of the pistol's grip.
An AOW that is a semi-auto pistol that does not have a fixed magazine cannot legally have a threaded barrel [PC 30515(a)(4)(A)], second handgrip [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)], shroud [PC 30515(a)(4)(C)], or accept magazines outside of the pistol's grip [PC 30515(a)(4)(D)].
Which means...
An AOW SIG P365 in a Flux Raider is an illegal assault weapon because it is a semi-auto pistol that does not have a fixed magazine and has a second handgrip and a shroud. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B),(C)]
In order for an AOW SIG P365 in a Flux Raider to be CA legal as a semi-auto, the AOW must have a fixed 10 or less round magazine that cannot be removed without disassembling the firearm's action (removing the slide assembly from the frame) or that is permanently attached in the pistol's grip. [PC 30515(b)]
Penal Code 16640Penal Code 16530Penal Code 30515Last edited by Quiet; 06-23-2024, 9:37 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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Comment
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Under Federal laws...
Installing a shoulder stock to a Title 2 AOW makes the firearm into a Title 2 SBR or Title 2 SBS, depending on the configuration of the firearm (caliber, barrel type).
In order to be legal, BATFE approval to make a Title 2 SBR/SBS is required before the shoulder stock can be legally attached to the Title 2 AOW.
Without BATFE approval, the resulting firearm will be considered an illegal (Federal felony) Title 2 SBR/SBS.
Last edited by Quiet; 06-24-2024, 7:14 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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