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11% excise tax

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  • Supersapper
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2014
    • 1225

    Originally posted by smittty


    I'm note sure were talking about the same thing.

    Remember years back when single shot exemption was ending, guys bought several pistols before the deadline and dros'd them after the deadline. Similar with magazines bought during freedom week, those that were purchased during that week still shipped and had delivery dates after freedom week ended.

    In both cases the actual purchase date was the official date that mattered, and when you picked them up or when they were delivered didn't matter.

    Well, I do remember the magazine thing and that's not the same. Delivery dates mattered because that was when you took possession. State just couldn't do anything to prove it. I addressed it in another post at another time. You can't pull back an airplane or a truck once it left, but you will note that even though they shipped but arrived after the fact, there was no one to prove when they arrived. Moreover, it was on the state to prove you got them before or after the fact, which was not possible because magazines aren't serialized. The state knew it and so had to live with the fact that you couldn't order them after that moment and that was it. To prove that fact, I also stated that you could walk into the LGS at 1659, grab the magazines you wanted, but if you got to the counter at 1701, you were out of luck; you had to put them back and walk out. The hard date was still in effect but there were physical factors like being in physical transit and an undocumentable arrival date making it unenforceable. Not to mention that there was no waiting period to complicate things. Bet money that the state would have seized ANY MAGAZINE that arrived at your doorstep at 1701 that Friday if they could have proven you got it.

    In the case of this "tax", the state doesn't have to prove anything because the LGS's are going to do that for them when they file their taxes and all of the paperwork that goes with each transaction. Unlike the mag bans, where the state would have to have subpoenaed out of state companies about unserialized items (who would have told them to pound sand and I believe, IIRC, one did), the companies are required to furnish all of this information because it's a firearm and because it's a tax (or a surcharge or fee or whatever the name de jour is). You and I both know this, so the state only has to set the date and they can prove without doubt that any given transaction failed to abide by it.

    LGSs aren't going to risk that so buy whatever gun you want on June 24. When you pick it up, there will be an additional 11% due on the transaction.

    As far as the SSEs, yes, I remember that too. I stand on the fact that there was the uncontrolled delivery...ie the plane, train, truck or auto that was delivering the firearm can't be called back because of the problem. The state let it go. As far as DROSing those pistols after the deadline, that would not be the same. We're talking about DROSing before the deadline and picking up afterword.

    The simple fact is that this is a couple of clicks in the computer to charge the 11%. Even if you were held correct on the past, the old adage about investing applies: "Past performance does not guarantee future results". This is about money in a state that is $37B in debt.
    Last edited by Supersapper; 06-10-2024, 8:54 PM.
    --Magazines for Sig Sauer P6
    --Walther P-38. Prefer Pre 1945
    --Luger P08

    Originally posted by ar15barrels
    Don't attempt to inject common sense into an internet pissing contest.

    Comment

    • SOCOMSki
      Junior Member
      • Dec 2009
      • 2

      Excise tax or extortion tax?

      Comment

      • Grendel Guy
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 2286

        "Extortion" is what I put as a memo on the payment check to DMV when I send the payment (not gonna use my bank card and convince fee, they already make too much)

        Comment

        • DCoakley
          Member
          • Jun 2023
          • 425

          ^^^ I pay the DMV also with a good old fashion check. No more bank card and their fees. In fact, it makes some cubicle dweller do their job.

          Comment

          • smittty
            Calguns Addict
            • Feb 2008
            • 6254

            Originally posted by DCoakley
            ^^^ I pay the DMV also with a good old fashion check. No more bank card and their fees. In fact, it makes some cubicle dweller do their job.
            Same here, I pay by check.

            Comment

            • Subotai
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Jun 2010
              • 11289

              Just another way for Dems to unarm poor black people.
              RKBA Clock: soap box, ballot box, jury box, cartridge box (Say When!)
              Free Vespuchia!

              Comment

              • TrappedinCalifornia
                Calguns Addict
                • Jan 2018
                • 9071

                If it makes anyone 'feel' better, the word I got today is that there will be a 'teleconference' or something like that for FFL's on or about the 20th as to how this is supposed to work.

                Interesting choice of dates... mmmm.

                I can't verify if this is true. Perhaps one of the FFL's could chime in.

                Comment

                • MountainLion
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 506

                  Originally posted by TrappedinCalifornia
                  One possible explanation had to do with how a company reported earnings.
                  That seems very plausible. Ultimately, the FFLs are responsible for sending the 11% to the state, for all the top line they made in Q3. How exactly they define "Q3" is a very complex questions, and many CPAs would agree to disagree on that.

                  Remember, California is on the verge of killing the fast food industry. Why not the gun/ammo industry they actually hate?
                  Really? The Habit, Five Guys and the various Poke Bowl chains seem to be doing just fine. I bet you that gun stores that sell H&H rifles and K... shotguns will not be heavily affected by the new tax. And that might be some of the intent behind the tax: gentrify the gun business.

                  meow

                  Comment

                  • TrappedinCalifornia
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Jan 2018
                    • 9071

                    Originally posted by MountainLion
                    ...Really? The Habit, Five Guys and the various Poke Bowl chains seem to be doing just fine. I bet you that gun stores that sell H&H rifles and K... shotguns will not be heavily affected by the new tax. And that might be some of the intent behind the tax: gentrify the gun business.
                    Uh... You haven't been talking to the FFL's around here, clearly.

                    All of them are 'worried' as to what's going to happen to their business.

                    I also know that the local fast food chains aren't doing as well as they used to. There has been some adaptation by customers, but the higher end stuff hasn't been going out the door. Even the nearest In-N-Out had empty parking spaces the other day; something that NEVER seemed to happen before.

                    It might have to do with the region. If it's not one which has a good number of high paying jobs, supporting the fast food chains isn't an option. Not all regions of California are 'well off' you know.

                    Comment

                    • R Dale
                      Senior Member
                      • Jul 2015
                      • 1736

                      Originally posted by L84CABO
                      COTUS has ruled that you cannot tax a constitutional right. How in the hell is this legal?
                      Does not need to be legal nobody is going to do anything about it.
                      Last edited by R Dale; 06-11-2024, 1:04 AM.

                      Comment

                      • MountainLion
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 506

                        Oh no, I completely agree with you: The typical small FFL who is barely hanging on today (many small gun shops are only operating because the owner puts in long unpaid hours) may very well get wiped out by the 11% tax. As you correctly point out, this is particularly true in the lower income areas of the state. Stockton and Bakersfield? I worry. On the other hand, if there were any gun stores in Palos Verdes Estates or Los Altos (or Malibu and Cupertino for larger cities), they would do just fine, and that is exactly my argument: The state may be (intentionally or as a side effect) change the FFL business to go more up-market. The person who spends $10K or $20K on a Kolar or Krieghoff probably doesn't care that they are now $11K or $22K (that's a joke, I don't know any gun store in California that relies on K guns for the bulk of their revenue, unlike Hal's place in Florida). Ruger and Hi-Point? That's where the rubber hits the road.

                        Since I honestly rarely eat fast food, I don't know the situation there well. The few upscale places I know seem to be pretty busy (and no, In-n-Out is not upscale on that scale, a $25 burger+fries+shake is upscale). ToGo Sandwiches has a wait every time I try to get my #9 fix. Those places don't seem to be affected much; I assume the situation at Burger King and McDonalds is disastrous though, as you said.

                        In total, you are very likely correct: The 11% will be painful, and will shrink the gun business by ... roughly 11%. More so the small mom-and-pop shops in already marginalized areas. Darn it, I'm starting to sound like a DEI advocate ...
                        meow

                        Comment

                        • TrappedinCalifornia
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Jan 2018
                          • 9071

                          Originally posted by MountainLion
                          Oh no, I completely agree with you: The typical small FFL who is barely hanging on today (many small gun shops are only operating because the owner puts in long unpaid hours) may very well get wiped out by the 11% tax. As you correctly point out, this is particularly true in the lower income areas of the state. Stockton and Bakersfield? I worry. On the other hand, if there were any gun stores in Palos Verdes Estates or Los Altos (or Malibu and Cupertino for larger cities), they would do just fine, and that is exactly my argument: The state may be (intentionally or as a side effect) change the FFL business to go more up-market. The person who spends $10K or $20K on a Kolar or Krieghoff probably doesn't care that they are now $11K or $22K (that's a joke, I don't know any gun store in California that relies on K guns for the bulk of their revenue, unlike Hal's place in Florida). Ruger and Hi-Point? That's where the rubber hits the road.

                          Since I honestly rarely eat fast food, I don't know the situation there well. The few upscale places I know seem to be pretty busy (and no, In-n-Out is not upscale on that scale, a $25 burger+fries+shake is upscale). ToGo Sandwiches has a wait every time I try to get my #9 fix. Those places don't seem to be affected much; I assume the situation at Burger King and McDonalds is disastrous though, as you said.

                          In total, you are very likely correct: The 11% will be painful, and will shrink the gun business by ... roughly 11%. More so the small mom-and-pop shops in already marginalized areas. Darn it, I'm starting to sound like a DEI advocate ...
                          I don't know that it was so much to 'upscale' so much as simply going after the 'low(er) hanging fruit' to cause as much disruption as possible.

                          How long or if it will last is TBD. Until then, cause as much pain and chaos as possible. If it does stand up, whoa be unto future gun buyers and those of us who already own guns can expect even more Draconian measures.

                          Also in their favor are the increased revenues, even if just 'temporary,' for anti-gun measures and opportunities to say: "Look. We're doing something."

                          Comment

                          • Silence Dogood
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2018
                            • 1269

                            Apologies if this has been asked in this or another of the multiple threads on this topic (I believe I've seen three outside OT) but I haven't seen the answer and the question just hit me tonight:

                            Will FFLs who allow ammo. shipments/trasnfers for a fee have to apply the 11% to the transfer fee that they charge or like the fee for a PPT, will that be exempt from the 11%? Thanks in advance to all who opine (especially to those who know what they are talking about and can cite the text).

                            Comment

                            • cz74
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2020
                              • 912

                              Originally posted by Silence Dogood
                              Apologies if this has been asked in this or another of the multiple threads on this topic (I believe I've seen three outside OT) but I haven't seen the answer and the question just hit me tonight:

                              Will FFLs who allow ammo. shipments/trasnfers for a fee have to apply the 11% to the transfer fee that they charge or like the fee for a PPT, will that be exempt from the 11%? Thanks in advance to all who opine (especially to those who know what they are talking about and can cite the text).
                              The 11% excise tax is levied on dealer inventory, FFL cannot legally tag on 11% to their "transfer fee" However, my FFL will look at whether an out-of-state vendor charged me the 11% on the receipt, if not FFL will levy it. Better to ask on the FFL forum to see what they are planning to do if they're willing to share that information.

                              Comment

                              • Thrashard340
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2011
                                • 893

                                It's not just guns. California is trying to legislate everything they hate out of existence...guns, ICE autos, corporate fast food, etc.

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