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**alfred1222** · 04-15-2012, 10:59 PM

OK, so lets begin. First off, owning a gun, any gun, is a serious responsibility and you have to invest the time necessary to learn the safe and proper handling of the gun. The is where you should concentrate the most of your time if you are new to firearms ownership. I would look into classes at your range or with the NRA, or even here on calguns. Alot of people would be willing to help you out. Now. lets get to your question. This is just my opinion, but i think that youre first gun should be a ruger 10/22. The ammo is cheap, its a proven and reliable platform, and its a .22, which lets you learn how to shoot accurately and build technique without breaking the bank or your shoulder. Stay FAR AWAY from the large caliber rifles and pistols, trust me, when youre first learning how to shoot, bigger is NOT better. you will have plenty of time to move up to the really large calibers, but when youre starting, you want to get your technique down pat. So ya, if i had to pick from your lists, it would be the Beretta, the Remington 870, and the Ruger 10/22. Good Luck, Welcome to Calguns!

**Divernhunter** · 04-16-2012, 7:12 PM

The first rifle should be a 22RF and the Ruger is a good choice so would be a Marlin 60 tube fed semi-auto. Buy lots of ammo and learn to shoot. The bigger stuff will come in time and you will be able to shoot it better. I would scope it with a 4X or 2X7 or 3X9 scope designed for a 22RF since the parrellax(sp) is set for a 22RF and they generally cost less. The Tikka and Savage are excellent choices. I go against the grain and like the Ruger mini14(223) and mini30(7.62X39) for defence as I do not need a bullet button, making changing mags faster/easier and limited to 10 round mags as I would be with AK/AR etc. I also have a M1A with plenty of 20 round mags that does not need a bullet button. I do have several AKS's and an AR15 but they would be the last choices out of my safes.
The first pistol should be a 22RF also. The Ruger or Browning semi-auto are both very good and not real costly. Again shoot it allot and learn the mechanics of shooting before going to the bigger stuff. They are also great for brushing up and just cheap fun shooting/practice.
For a shotgun "I" would get a standard pump shotgun with 3" chamber such as a Rem 870 Wingmaster. It can be used for hunting and personal protection. You can modify it to be the home defence gun later if you desire or just get another already set up.

**Chaos47** · 04-16-2012, 7:29 PM

Originally posted by Aleous

I am very inexperienced though, never even firing any type of firearm.

Welcome to Calguns!
Not trying to pick on you at all, lets get that to the side up front.
It really does seem like you have done your homework and that is great.

But you need to find some friends that will teach you things and let you shoot their stuff before you just jump in blindly. You need to figure out what really works for you and what you like. Not just what someone suggests online.

If you are not busy this weekend there is going to be a huge Calguns shoot in Barstow. You should bring some ammo, eye and ear protection (plus food / water / camping supplies if you end up staying over night) and meet some of us and shoot our arsenals.

Calguns.net

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=523185

I highly suggest you come out, hope to see you there!

**Aleous** · 04-20-2012, 11:34 PM

Thank you all for your help, guidance, and wisdom! I really appreciate it all! Have taken every bit of advice to heart especially the part about starting small! And I wish I could join all you guys in Barstow, that would rock, but sadly work is an unforgiving mistress.

Anyway I do plan on getting as much personal instruction as I can in firing/safety as well as cleaning and maintenance.(which I'm more worried about personally..not knowing anything about it) Find it interesting the more I research and find out the more my list changes as I go through what my needs are, my budget is, and my ultimate use of them will be. Here is my new amended list that Ive changed since hearing your advice and more of my own research, some have been replaced, dropped, or otherwise changed in some way, feel free to comment again, it all really helps me! Still not sure what my first couple are going to be but still have about a month to decide though it's looking like a .22 rifle, 12ga shotgun, 9mm pistol, and maybe a 5.56..not sure about that last one, thought about a revolver but I dont think I could wait that extra 30 days...maybe a Mosin. Anyway thank you all again!

Handguns
Beretta Px4 Storm 9mm
Bersa Bp9 9mm
S&W M&P 45acp
Ruger Gp100 .357 4in
Taurus Raging bull 454 5in

Shotguns
Remington 870 Express 12ga 18in
Mossberg 590 12ga 20in
Mossberg 930spx 12ga 18in

Rifles
Marlin Model 60sb
Henry Survival Rifle Ar7
S&W M&P15 Sport
Kel-Tec Su16ca
Saiga 7.62x39 16in
Saiga 308 22in
Tikka t3 lite Ss .30-06
Savage 116bh 300wm
Marlin Guide 1895 45/70 ss

Other
Mosin-Nagant M91/30
Kel-Tec Plr-16
Beretta U22 Neos(with carbine conversion kit)

Oh and one more thing I would like to ask if anyone has any experience with any of these guns is which of these would be okay to buy used and which others would be a crapshoot to buy used, or if anyone could point me to a guide about buying used firearms that would be great and I would be very grateful. I do plan on getting most of these new but saving some dough is always nice if it can be warranted. Thank you!

**emptybottle151** · 04-21-2012, 10:10 AM

Handguns
Any 357 revolver - you can shoot 38s out of it till your ready for the 357
G22/23 - with conversion barrels you can shoot 40s&w, 357sig, 9mm, and 22lr
Shotgun
Any 18in pump action - Good for home defense and breaching doors, I prefer Rimmington and Winchester
Rifles
Ruger 10/22 - great for practice and small game
AR 15 - Good for shtf, the weapon used by military, police, and civilians. Ammo,mags, and parts readily available. You can also convert it to shoot 22lr for practice.
AK 47/74 - Good to familiarize with the weapon of choice of our enemies. Also just all around fun gun to shoot.
Extra Notes
I know your a noob but consider building a AK/AR. Its really not that hard, good to intimately know your weapon systems, and no paper trail for big brother to follow. With these weapons you will be a well rounded gun collector.

**FalconLair** · 04-21-2012, 10:35 AM

i like your choice in the Beretta Px4 Storm 9mm
nice firearm, most reviews I've seen are pretty favorable (i got one DROSed right now), most Berettas I'm familiar with have the safety decocker feature, which I think benefits a new gun owner. If all else, make a trip to your local firing range, try out some of the guns they can rent you, although many ranges now required that you go with a buddy, if renting one of their firearms.

You can prolly even find some valuable information concerning good gun safety on YouTube, although I'd have some caution over some of the stuff out there. Just use good common sense, that usually prevails.

Hope your first one is memorable, my first was a .357 Colt King Cobra 4" barrel Stainless in 1986 that I still have to this day. I'm not a huge gun collector compared to some of these guys, I only have 4 and the Storm on the way.

found this YouTube video from Hickok45, a pretty good judge of firearms, looks like he has a gun safety video...Prolly well worth watching

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQrlDUIZ3f0

**Supertac916** · 04-21-2012, 11:16 AM

I'd recommend to go out with some of your friends who are familiar with firearms or take a class at one of the local ranges. Even experienced shooters make mistakes and a accident with a gun can be devastating. Just take a look on the forums here and you'll see pics and experiences of guys shooting themselves in the foot and one guy even put a .45 through his leg shattering his femur.

That being said, there are plenty of good firearms on the market. I'd recommend looking into Glocks, Sigs, 1911's, S&W and Ruger revolvers. They are good quality firearms and are fairly easy to sell or trade, if you ever decide to upgrade. Also, parts are readily available for them.

Shotguns: I like Remington 870's, Mossbergs, and Benelli's.

Rifles: The AR's are nice because you could interchange the uppers, optics, triggers, stocks, etc. You could have one lower with several different uppers depending on what kind of shooting you want to do. AR 10's and M1A's are nice, but those will take up your entire budget. AK's are also nice guns and very reliable.

Like the other guys had already mentioned, just try them out before you buy them. Every shooter has different preferences and budgets, but just make sure you buy reliable and quality firearms. It'll help in trades, resale, and of course if you ever have to use them you want to make sure it fires flawlessly. Good luck and welcome to the hobby...

**ClarenceBoddicker** · 04-21-2012, 3:28 PM

Welcome to the world of guns. You will learn that guns are compromises like everything else. No gun will work well in all situations. You need to figure out what you want to do or think you will do with the gun to select the most appropriate choice. I've been a gun owner for about 30 years, so here's a few of my recommendations:

Pistol: Forget a revolver, until you start an advanced collection. They are relics of the past. They can be fun, but IMO they are not practical for home or self defense. You don't see any mainstream LEO's using them now do you? If I were you I would get a Glock 9mm, either a G-17 or G-19. The G-19 is better suited for concealed carry & can still use the G-17 & G-18 magazines. IMO the Glock is the best starter handgun there is. They are 100% reliable & very simple. Learn to shoot it well, then decide if you want a: striker fired (Glock, Baby Browning), single action (Browning High Power or clones like the CZ, Feg, etc. BTW that is my 2nd choice for a pistol), double action (P-38, but I really don't like DA's), Double Action Only (don't know, don't care & won't own a DAO), or a wheel gun. Don't get caught up in the pistol caliber hype either. They is very little difference between 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP in regards to "stopping power". BTW "stopping power" or worse yet, "knock down power" is a myth. Watch: "Deadly Weapons: Firearms & Firepower" to see the myth of "knockdown power" exposed by Davis. A 1-2.4mm increase in size, is not some monumental increase in lethality. All 3 rounds have put plenty of people to bed. All that matters is that the round used is effective. Shot placement is vastly more important than myths & marketing. For me firepower is vastly more important than "stopping power". 9mm high capacity pistols have the most firepower, so that is my simple choice.

Shotgun: Why do you want one? They are a very good example of a compromise. They are too big to use in confined spaces, are ineffective at anything over short range & are limited in capacity. Sadly the type most suited to personal or home defense are unavailable to many citizens. Short Barreled Shotguns or Any Other Weapon (shotgun type pistol) are heavily regulated & taxed by the Feds. If you have to buy one, get a good quality one. I prefer the Ithaca 37, as you can "slam fire" those. Read about Patches Watson & his sweetheart in Vietnam. I'd avoid the clip fed semi-auto ones like the Siaga, as those will be the next to be heavily regulated & taxed by the Feds. Look what they did in 1994 with the Striker-12/Street Sweeper & USAS-12.

Rifle: I'd avoid anything that is not either a magazine fed bolt action or semi-auto, until you start collecting. Stick with a NATO caliber (5.56x45mm or 7.62x51mm) to start with. Budget & your needs will determine what is more important, accuracy or firepower. I'd avoid most of the lower cost commercial bolt action guns. Most have a short barrel life & are not built very strong, as they are made for hunting, not shooting a lot. Military surplus bolt guns can be a great deal, if you know what to look for. The best surplus bolt gun IMO is the .308 Enfield as they have the best action & use a detachable 10 round magazine. They are hard to find though. A '98 Mauser or one of the many clones is the 2nd choice. Don't be distracted by cheap surplus guns that use obsolete calibers like Mosin Negants, until you start collecting. For a semi auto stick with a time tested platform: AK, G-3, FAL, M-14, AR-15. Most can be had in both NATO calibers. Budget & engagement range will be deciding factors.

Make your 1st guns the most usable ones, as you may not be able to buy them later. Gun bans can happen at any time. Sadly some of the most effective & fun guns are not available to many citizens, as the civil war vets group does not believe that they are "sporting" & thus not worthy of ownership.

**Agent 0range** · 04-21-2012, 6:58 PM

First of all, Welcome to Calguns! I think you're on the right track with your list.
I was told many times that "every young man wants to buy a handgun, but every young man should first own a shotgun." The reason is versatility. It can be used for SD/HD, hunting small and large game, and there are so many options for ammo which isn't too expensive. For these reasons, my first firearm purchase was a Remington 870 tactical. The short barrel makes it the perfect HD weapon which was my main reason for buying a gun in the first place.
As far as handguns go for a new shooter, stay away from Glocks or anything lacking an external safety. My second purchase was a Beretta PX4 Storm (.40). This is definitely the perfect handgun for a new shooter. As stated in a prior post, the safety de-cocker is a comforting feature. This is the easiest weapon to break down and clean that I have seen. I can completely field strip it and put it back together in under a minute. The rotating barrel also slightly reduces recoil.
My first rifle (besides my M-16 in the Marines) was a Ruger 10/22 with a Simmons 3x9 scope. This thing is deadly accurate, extremely reliable, and the ammo is super cheap. This is the perfect rifle to hone your skills before moving up to anything 5.56/.223 or 7.62.

Whatever decisions you make, just be sure you get the necessary training prior to handling them. Take as many classes as you can and know the basic firearm rules inside and out, forward and backward. Good luck and be safe!

**compulsivegunbuyer** · 04-21-2012, 7:01 PM

Shotgun: Why do you want one? They are a very good example of a compromise.

I would take a shotgun over any handgun for defence at short ranges.

**stkcode** · 04-22-2012, 3:31 PM

Hey there,

I'm also in the HD. I can't really recommend an FFL, but Hesperia is loaded with quite a few. One that I would not recommend to use is a Pawn shop off of Hesperia Rd, across from Harbor Freight. I forgot their name. But, when I was there last year, they where selling counterfeit music CDs...a huge no-no. Yes, they knew they where counterfeit. They even had their own section at a discounted rate!

For this reason, I would not recommend them as a reputable place.

As into firing ranges...there is one off of Stoddard Wells, near the I-15. There is also another out in Lucerne near Rabbit Springs Rd. Sorry I don't remember their names off-hand.

**brassburnz** · 04-22-2012, 6:10 PM

Welcome to the world of firearms. I've introduced dozens of my friends to shooting.

I always start them out with a .22 rimfire. If the person is a total stranger to guns, I start them out with a vintage Smith & Wesson Model 17 also known as the K-22 Masterpiece. This is a 6-shot, double action revolver with adjustable target sights.

I teach all of the firearm safety rules with the revolver and then we go shooting. The K-22 is extremely accurate and simple to use. No mechanical safety. Load six rounds. Fire six rounds. Eject the empties. Start over. I have new shooters shoot at the back of largest paper target the range offers. I use a bingo marker to make one large dot about the size of a quarter. That is the point of aim and at about 7 yards or 21 feet, that dot should also be the point of impact.

After the new shooter is comfortable with the .22 rimfire we'll move on to a centerfire revolver. I like to use either the Smith and Wesson Model 15 Combat Masterpiece in .38 Special or the Model 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum in .357 Magnum. We start out with 148 grain wadcutters. These are very light target loads. The recoil is very manageable with most shooters in the Model 15. In the Model 686, the recoil isn't much more than a .22 rimfire. We shoot at the same type of target, often the same target since the .22 holes are much smaller than the .38.

Next we'll move up to 158 gr. semi-wadcutters. The recoil is more noticeable and you need to be careful the new shooter does not develop a flinch.

I believe you should also follow this progression from a .22 rimfire revolver to a .38 Special centerfire revolver, especially if you want to try this on your own. You should be able to rent comparable firearms at a local range.

I highly suggest that you take a handgun safety course at your local range. You should be able to find them using an internet search or contact the NRA or CRPA for more information.

I wouldn't even think about purchasing a handgun until you've taken a handgun safety class. You'll also need to get a Handgun Safety Certification card from the state of California anyway, so just take the class and then take the test.

**Aleous** · 04-24-2012, 11:17 PM

Thank you all again for your great responses and advice! They are all very helpful and influence my research and plans regarding my future gun purchases as well as my future as a gun owner in general. No worries on starting small and getting practice and instruction! On my to do list before buying hopefully, having trouble finding a place to rent out and try some out or finding a range near me that isn't a club or just very far away. Living in the high desert, live in Phelan, Commute through Adelanto and Victorville, work in Hesperia. If any of you have any suggestions that would be awesome. Anyway as for my list have only amended one choice on my list and that's dropping the Mosin-Nagant rifle and opting for a Stevens-Savage 200 in .270 for my first bolt action hunting rifle. And of course a Remington 870 for my first shotgun. As far as my first pistol still deciding between a Beretta Storm or a Bersa Bp9 either in 9mm. For my first .22 a marlin 60 ss or a black Henry Ar-7. And for my first 5.56 either a Kel-Tec su16ca or a S&W M&P15 Sport. I know revolvers are kind fo outdated but still are very reliable and will always have that extra cool factor of any wheel gun. Have decided to try and get them used if I can(have planned to get the rest of my guns new). Will probably get the Ruger .357 first(though I might still change my mind to a .357 Taurus, the extra 7 and 8 barrel rounds are enticing over the standard six shot) but having difficulty not planning to get the 5" Raging Bull first. I just find the .45lc/454c combo so awesome even though I know, I know I shouldn't pick a high caliber for my first revolver, just finding it hard to resist more than my other first guns. Anyway a revolver probably wont be in my first round of purchases for my $1500 budget since that dumb 1 handgun every 30 days law. Every first gun pick Ive chosen has fit my criteria of accuracy, dependability, portability, quality, comfort, and price. Anyway now that I've semi narrowed it down let me know your thoughts/advice as always so I can narrow it down even more and be all ready when the time comes to put the cash on my FFL's counter.

Thank you all as always, especially for the very warm welcome. Can't wait to hear from all you awesome and cool people of this great Forum!

Grātias Multas!

**theduece** · 04-25-2012, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Aleous

Handguns
Beretta Px4 9mm
S&W M&P 45acp
Bersa Bp9 9mm
Taurus 608 .357mag 6innot bad put some .38 in it and would be a powder puff. I never owned nor shot a taurus. Allthough the newer ones look to be ALOT nicer than the ones from a few years back. Might want to expand this to include a few others such as ruger or smith&wesson.
Ruger Super Redhawk .454 7.5inforget about it expensive to shoot and not one of the easier to manage
Adding a few to your list
walther p22
ruger 22/45
ruger sr22
sig mosquito
Any sa/da .22 revolver

Shotguns
Remington 870 Express 12ga 18in
Mossberg 590 12ga 20 in
Mossberg 930 spx 12ga 18in

Rifles
Ruger 10/22 AW SS
Marlin 70pss Papoose
S&W M&P15 Sport
Kel-Tec SU-16CA
Saiga 7.62x39 16in
Saiga 308 21in Wood
Tikka T3 Lite .308
Savage 116bh 300wmNot to start with.
Marlin Guide SS 45/70Not to start with.

That concludes the relevant in the list to which to buy first. The last 3 I realize need a bit of hoop jumping such as conversion/requirements to own/import into CA but would still like your opinion on since I do plan on getting them eventually. They are:
Ruger Charger
Kel-Tec Plr-16
Springfield M1 GarandNice guns great to add to a collection.This has the least amount of hoop jumping of all guns you listed. It is C&R find a used one from a private seller in your area and buy it in the McDonalds parking lot.

The opinions are strong here. Agreed in the caliber debate, however bieng a new gun owner he/she is limited to 10 rounds. Regardless of capacity in the free states.

Is Glock the best? It is an opinion that is shared by many. They are reliable firearms. 100% of the time? No.

Wheelguns outdated relics of the past.... not likely. It is true that most if not all leo no longer carry them, however that does not make them outdated relics. They have a place and MANY people use them for HD/SD. A sa/da revolver is a no nonsense weapon, no safety to forget, no racking of slides. Yes they are slower to reload for MOST people. That is thier drawback. They are Fun to shoot. Typically cost more to purchase. Are prettier to look at. My plastic guns imho are like work trucks, they get the job done and I couldn't care less if they are scratched. My wheelguns, those are art.

A shotgun IS the most versatile weapon there is. you want 100+yard effectiveness? Slugs are your answer. Hunting? Do I need to answer that? Self defense? 00 buck to #4 buck Do some research. Range toy? Trap, Skeet, Sporting clays.....I would actually like to know if there is a single firearm that has more uses than a shotgun?

IMHO With a $1500 budget You can get a few. I would start with .22lr. Cheap to shoot alot. Maybe A .22 handgun, a .22 rifle, and an 870. All three of those could be had for less than $1000. leaving you with $500 for ammo. If you havent factored ammo into your costs, Do so now. Alot of people prefer the 9mm for this very reason. The following prices were accurate at one point when buying in bulk

Ammo
.22lr @$0.035 a round
9mm @$0.19 a round
.38spl @$0.25 a round
.40s&w @$0.34 a round
.45acp @$0.38 a round

Magnum rounds skyrocket from here. As in .44mag,.357mag etc. But don't think that a smaller caliber is always cheaper. .32acp is more than .45acp typically when you can find it. Popular rounds are typ. cheaper. Common military rounds are cheaper yet.

While this may not sound like alot of money pick your caliber of choice than multiply by 300rounds(average range trip for me). Some larger/more exotic calibers go for more than $2.00 a round.

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